Wine from Concentrate

[Nuttypuddy]

Hi Everyone,

Iam just getting into the hobby, but cannot go into any wine stores and browse. I have all the things I need to brew. I decided to go a different route than a starter wine kit and make it from Apple Juice. I noticed allot of posts about 2 months minimum for great wine. I was able to do mine in 1 month and a week, and I found it tasted great.
I used 18 litres of apple juice
10 lbs of sugar
Yeast nutrient
Yeast energizer
Pectin Enzme
5 Cinnamon sticks
And a cup of raisins
Oh and of course some ec-1118 yeast
Added all then topped it up to 5 gallons.
It started bubbling immediately, and went strong for 10 days.
I let it sit in my primary for 2 weeks
Then my secondary for 2 weeks until I was sure there were no more bubbles.
Then racked it again and put bentonite and whipped the carbon out.
Then added 5 crushed Camden tablets and whipped it again, let it sit another week.
It was crystal clear. It packed a serious punch, and tasted great.
I’m now trying the same thing with the no name frozen juice from Sobeys. My question is am I doing something wrong? It’s clear, it’s alcohol I think is about 15% well that’s what the hydrometer said before I put in the yeast. So why does everyone else take longer.

 

[winemaker81]

The short answer to why others take longer? chemistry

With modern techniques (degassing, early use of fining agents) driven by the wine kit industry, wine can be fermented and bottled in 4 weeks. Actually less, if we want to push it. Yup. You can be drinking your wine 4 weeks after starting it.

The down side to this is the wine is green, unready.

Wine undergoes chemical changes during its lifespan, most noticeable in the first 6 months. Taste your wine at bottling, then open a bottle a month for 6 months. Record notes at each tasting but do not look at previous notes. After 6 months, read your notes from first to last. You'll find that given time to age, the wine improves.

One current theory is that bulk aging wine longer ensures the wine is consistent from bottle to bottle, as the entire batch is homogeneous. Bottling early means the individual bottles may age differently, so you get inconsistency from bottle to bottle. At first I was not sold on this theory, but after reflecting on it a year or two, I'm more of a believer. At the very least, leaving a wine in bulk for an extra few months causes no harm.

The second answer to your question is patience. Those who've been making wine for more than a few years know that waiting for the wine to age pays off.

 

[Nuttypuddy]

The short answer to why others take longer? chemistry

With modern techniques (degassing, early use of fining agents) driven by the wine kit industry, wine can be fermented and bottled in 4 weeks. Actually less, if we want to push it. Yup. You can be drinking your wine 4 weeks after starting it.

The down side to this is the wine is green, unready.

Wine undergoes chemical changes during its lifespan, most noticeable in the first 6 months. Taste your wine at bottling, then open a bottle a month for 6 months. Record notes at each tasting but do not look at previous notes. After 6 months, read your notes from first to last. You'll find that given time to age, the wine improves.

One current theory is that bulk aging wine longer ensures the wine is consistent from bottle to bottle, as the entire batch is homogeneous. Bottling early means the individual bottles may age differently, so you get inconsistency from bottle to bottle. At first I was not sold on this theory, but after reflecting on it a year or two, I'm more of a believer. At the very least, leaving a wine in bulk for an extra few months causes no harm.

The second answer to your question is patience. Those who've been making wine for more than a few years know that waiting for the wine to age pays off.

Hi there,

thank you. I will definitely be testing this. Today I will be putting on 2 new batches. 1 will be a peach, the other is going to be cranberry. I’m going to leave them in the 2nd fermentation for 3 months each or until they clear-on their own. I will try each bottle after at 1 month intervals. I learned all this stuff on YouTube, and that was never explained.
D

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Nuttypuddy - and welcome. If your wine tastes great then you are doing all the right things but sometimes adding water to fruit juice is not any different from diluting the juice with water. Sure, folk like us who make country wines (wines made from fruits (and vegetables and flowers) other than grapes) frequently dilute the juice from the fruit with water... but no wine maker who makes wine from grapes would ever dream of adding a drop of water to the crushed fruit. They may add water to the pressed fruit to produce a second running but they very, very rarely ever consider blending the two wines.
As I say, country wines are often made with water (as if the fruit was grain and the wine maker is brewing beer) but pressed apples are rarely (if ever?) diluted with water. True, you more or less topped up the 18 L with another 2 L of water (about half a gallon US) but as a matter of good practice you really don't want to dilute apple juice. If you obtained 18 L then that is what you obtained and you are going to be bottling about 16 plus L (about 4 gallons). That said, some - some - fruit is too acidic and so benefits with the addition of water. Other fruit is viewed as too rich in flavor for a good country wine (which is why many folk use about 3 lbs of fruit (about 1.5 kg ) for each gallon of wine. But about 16 lbs of grapes , for example, are crushed to make each gallon of wine. The question (for me) is are we fermenting fruit flavored water to make our wines or are we fermenting fruit to make the wine.

 

[winemaker81]

I learned all this stuff on YouTube, and that was never explained.

YouTube is a great for a lot of things, but winemaking -- for the most part -- is not one of them. Anyone with a web cam can post a video, regardless of whether or not they know anything.

Here? You're not getting one opinion. You're getting the collective experience of dozens of experienced winemakers. If someone disagrees with something I say, they'll chime in. Respectfully.

This forum doesn't really feel like the internet. People are polite to each other and act like mature adults. Yeah, I know, weird ....

 

[Rembee]

First off, welcome to WMT!

I whole heartedly agree with @winemaker81 & @BernardSmith. There are many ways to make wine. Not everyone does it exclusively the sameway. But this is how we all learn something new by reading each others methods and idea's.
So, read, read, read and above all, have fun at this hobby. It is such a joy to know that you were able to ferment a juice as it has been done for thousands of years. The only difference is modern technology. But the end result is the same... Wine!
Good luck and remember, have fun!

 

[heatherd]

Hi Everyone,

Iam just getting into the hobby, but cannot go into any wine stores and browse. I have all the things I need to brew. I decided to go a different route than a starter wine kit and make it from Apple Juice. I noticed allot of posts about 2 months minimum for great wine. I was able to do mine in 1 month and a week, and I found it tasted great.
I used 18 litres of apple juice
10 lbs of sugar
Yeast nutrient
Yeast energizer
Pectin Enzme
5 Cinnamon sticks
And a cup of raisins
Oh and of course some ec-1118 yeast
Added all then topped it up to 5 gallons.
It started bubbling immediately, and went strong for 10 days.
I let it sit in my primary for 2 weeks
Then my secondary for 2 weeks until I was sure there were no more bubbles.
Then racked it again and put bentonite and whipped the carbon out.
Then added 5 crushed Camden tablets and whipped it again, let it sit another week.
It was crystal clear. It packed a serious punch, and tasted great.
I’m now trying the same thing with the no name frozen juice from Sobeys. My question is am I doing something wrong? It’s clear, it’s alcohol I think is about 15% well that’s what the hydrometer said before I put in the yeast. So why does everyone else take longer.

Welcome! Agree with the above posts and also suggest using a hydrometer (rather than bubbles or days) to know if you are done and should be below 0.995-ish. You're looking for the reading to be the same for three readings in a row. Also if you decide to add sugar after fermentation you need to add both potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate.

 

[Nuttypuddy]

YouTube is a great for a lot of things, but winemaking -- for the most part -- is not one of them. Anyone with a web cam can post a video, regardless of whether or not they know anything.

Here? You're not getting one opinion. You're getting the collective experience of dozens of experienced winemakers. If someone disagrees with something I say, they'll chime in. Respectfully.

This forum doesn't really feel like the internet. People are polite to each other and act like mature adults. Yeah, I know, weird ....

Yes thank you and everyone else for that, I am also on the KLR site (that’s my bike), and when I ask a question, usually the response is quite rude.

 

[Nuttypuddy]

Hi Nuttypuddy - and welcome. If your wine tastes great then you are doing all the right things but sometimes adding water to fruit juice is not any different from diluting the juice with water. Sure, folk like us who make country wines (wines made from fruits (and vegetables and flowers) other than grapes) frequently dilute the juice from the fruit with water... but no wine maker who makes wine from grapes would ever dream of adding a drop of water to the crushed fruit. They may add water to the pressed fruit to produce a second running but they very, very rarely ever consider blending the two wines.
As I say, country wines are often made with water (as if the fruit was grain and the wine maker is brewing beer) but pressed apples are rarely (if ever?) diluted with water. True, you more or less topped up the 18 L with another 2 L of water (about half a gallon US) but as a matter of good practice you really don't want to dilute apple juice. If you obtained 18 L then that is what you obtained and you are going to be bottling about 16 plus L (about 4 gallons). That said, some - some - fruit is too acidic and so benefits with the addition of water. Other fruit is viewed as too rich in flavor for a good country wine (which is why many folk use about 3 lbs of fruit (about 1.5 kg ) for each gallon of wine. But about 16 lbs of grapes , for example, are crushed to make each gallon of wine. The question (for me) is are we fermenting fruit flavored water to make our wines or are we fermenting fruit to make the wine.

Thank you, so for this next batch I got 24 litres of apple juice, Iam going to try it with pure juice not water this time. I also do not think I’m going to use cinnamon, my mother said it was overpowering, and made my wine dry, she said I either should stop that, or add more sugar ( starting to think my friends liked it because it was free). She’s been a wine drinker for over 70 years, and owns quite the collection, so I’m going to change what I’m doing.

 

[winemaker81]

Yes thank you and everyone else for that, I am also on the KLR site (that’s my bike), and when I ask a question, usually the response is quite rude.

I'm often on technical sites and the response is often the same. Sad.

 

[Scooter68]

I sincerely doubt that you will experience any real rudeness from folks who have been on here a long time. I'm not one of those having only been on here only about 6 years, but; I assure you I've never dealt out any rude comments unless someone really pushed some 'buttons.' In that time I've had my comments corrected a few times and maybe one time did I think someone crossed a line. I must have been correct because that person received a few 'responses.' So I wouldn't worry about getting any real sarcasitic comments. Those sorts of comments are generally not made unless a person is clearly trying to provoke.

As to your comments (And other folks comments about making country wines)) Remember that anything primarily made with other than grapes/Grape Juice from a vineyard is normally considered a "country wine." The key points to remember are 1) We each have our own preferences and 2) The potency (Amount of flavor) of fruits varies widely.
Some fruits are quite bold and strong and making a wine from that fruits juice is probably going to be both a waste of fruit and secondly a bit overpowering to your taste-buds. (A good example for me has been wild black raspberries and wild blackberries both of which are typically low in water content and very high in flavor) Apples on the other hand are one of the fruits that probably would be best made with absolutely no dilution with water unless you are making a simple syrup at a ratio of at least 2 parts sugar to 1 part water. There are also some "fruits" actually require you to extract the flavor through steam juicing or some other method that uses water as a solvent to pull the flavor from the fruit.
I guess the takeaway I'm trying to pass along is that there is no one right answer to if or how much water should be used in making a country wine.

Welcome to WMT.

 

[Rice_Guy]

welcome to WMT

but cannot go into any wine stores and browse. I have all the things I need to brew. I decided to go a different route than a starter wine kit and make it from Apple Juice. I noticed allot of posts about 2 months minimum for great wine. I was able to do mine in 1 month and a week, and I found it tasted great. , , ,, let it sit another week.
It was crystal clear. It packed a serious punch, and tasted great.
I’m now trying the same thing with the no name frozen juice from Sobeys. My question is am I doing something wrong? It’s clear, it’s alcohol I think is about 15% well that’s what the hydrometer said before I put in the yeast. So why does everyone else take longer.

WHY is a good question?
* there are anthropology articles about chimps finding fermented fruit and getting drunk, it works, it is hedonic, and chances are good humans also learned that trick
* the fastest wine I read about took 20 minutes, a lab bench tool for screening varieties that could push out 2 ml an hour
* well we have alcohol in a week coming off primary so we are calling it wine, everything extra is cosmetic
* my look at it is that wine is a preservation system like smoking ham or making cheese out of milk (curious what you would think or you got a liter of milk at Sobeys and let it sit on the counter a month) ,,, fermentation lets wine taste good / be a useful calorie source longer. If you look at a lot of the posts on WMT they are actually asking “what can I do to keep this calorie source tasting good longer longer?” ,,, And I look back at my first wine, it was better at two weeks than two months. Ha two months minimum
* tradition falls into a lot of this with red grape the tannins let it age BUT basically taste bad so folks age them so they taste better/ mellow. Prior to about the last 150 years technology wasn’t there so to have a good hedonic white or country wine it was consumed fairly fresh.
The skeeter pee thread is a good example of a fast wine here

Gosh you can make wine out of anything edible, ,, pine needles, mushrooms and onions, synthetic flavor, instant rice from the commissary in jail, ,,, lots of choices! All in all if you are enjoying it it is the correct way. ,,, SO HAVE FUN

 

[winemaker81]

I also do not think I’m going to use cinnamon, my mother said it was overpowering, and made my wine dry, she said I either should stop that, or add more sugar ( starting to think my friends liked it because it was free). She’s been a wine drinker for over 70 years, and owns quite the collection, so I’m going to change what I’m doing.

Most fruit wines (country wines) benefit from backsweetening. Ferment them dry, add potassium sorbate and K-meta, and then sweeten to taste. Sorbate + K-meta will prevent a renewed fermentation -- note they do NOT stop an active fermentation.

The cinnamon sounds like a good idea, but you used too much. I suggest adding 1 stick, post-fermentation, and taste the wine every couple of weeks to see if you have the flavor you want. You can also add cloves, nutmeg, allspice, and/or ginger to flavor the wine. Apple is a light flavor, so go light on the spices. It's much easier to add more than take some out. Also, when tasting, gently stir the wine as the wine has no convection currents and the wine near the seasoning will have the strongest flavoring.

If you have 1 US gallon/4 liter jugs, you can break the batch into 5 parts and flavor all differently. Keep in mind the wine volume is less, so you'll want less seasonings. If you are in the USA, Carlo Rossi markets Burgundy and Chablis (which bear no resemblances to those areas in France) in 4 liter jugs -- the wines are good for cooking, and the jugs are handy to have.