Wine diary and question time!

[user 31015]

I figured rather than randomly starting threads, or shoving my questions in on other people's threads, I would keep them all in one place - nice and tidy!

Anyway, I've currently got my first country wines in two carboys (5.6lt/1.5 US glalons, by the way) and one bucket. In the carboys a Plum wine started Feb 14, a Pear wine, started 16 Feb and in the bucket, a Blackcurrant Dragon Blood started 19 April. Questions and notes follow.

The Plum
I recently (20 April) added a flavor pack to the plum as the recipe suffered from being a bit tasteless. A sample at the time suggested this was a nice improvement. I also stabilized and I'm not seeing any activity in the jar any more. SG ratings suggest that it is dry (0.990).

Question: Is it time to bottle this thing? The recipe suggests it needs another month in the jar before bottling for 6 months, but considering it was "wrong" about the fruit required to make something tasty, I'm not convinced I should follow this.

Question: So far the plum wine has a great deal of astringency/tannin that seems to be mellowing over time. I am guessing it will continue to mellow, hence the 6 months wait before drinking? Is this common (I expect so?) or should I have done something earlier on to reduce the astringency? I am thinking I should back-sweeten a little - wait to check it's stable - and then bottle. If so, what sort of SG should I aim for? Or should I pull out some sample volumes, add a little simple syrup and then taste test to get something ideal? I'm concerned that this approach will work for the "young" wine but that over time (if collaring is required) the profile will change and the sugar amount will be wrong for the drink.


The Pear
The pear is a great looking drop so far. It's been racked and is pretty much clear and very nearly dry at 0.992. The recipe suggests 5 months in the jar before bottling for 6 months again.

I've got a kilo (2lb) of pears ripening on the bench and expect to stabilize at some point (now?) and to add a flavor pack to the batch as, again, the recipe called for less pears than I now think is necessary for a tasty drop.

Question: Once I've stabilized, flavor packed, and waited for it to clear (bentonite along the way somewhere) I'm expecting I can back sweeten, wait to make sure there's no more fermentation, and, again, bottle this thing too?

 

[peaches9324]

no leave them age in carboy. After 8 months in the carboy they will still be dropping lees and becoming crystal clear at a year or year and a 1/2. They may seem completely clear to the naked eye right now but if you bottle you'll be disappointed for sure and don't back sweeten until your almost ready to bottle a lil age does wonders you cannot hurry a wine made from fresh fruit. And don't forget the sorbate before back sweetening just make sure you have the carboys topped up, the airlock with liquid in it and is on a good kmeta schedule when aging

 

[user 31015]

Interesting, ta. What k-meta schedule should I have? I don't have any right now, other than k-sorb and meta added to the plum right now.

Damn, I am going to have to get more carboys! I find it funny that DB is "ready" so quickly, and yet tees other drops will take another year before I can drink them!

Also, why not add a fining and then bottle and age rather than wait them out in the carboy? Lots of questions, I know...

 

[peaches9324]

Interesting, ta. What k-meta schedule should I have? I don't have any right now, other than k-sorb and meta added to the plum right now.

Damn, I am going to have to get more carboys! I find it funny that DB is "ready" so quickly, and yet tees other drops will take another year before I can drink them!

Also, why not add a fining and then bottle and age rather than wait them out in the carboy? Lots of questions, I know...

LMAO it's a hurry up and wait game I know because the wine will still be dropping out lees in the carboy something you don't want in the bottom of your bottles or the sides of your bottles. This has happened to me I have yet to try the dragon blood but plan on in the near future I've heard only good things about it! Yep more carboys fyi get a couple 3 gal carboys and gal jugs also because after the aging process you'll want to down size to avoid headspace or/and adding water or other wine to top up and you might wanna invest in some aquatic marbles I tend to use a lot of those. As far as the kmeta schedule goes different people have different schedules but if you do 1/4 tsp of kmeta for 5 - 6 gal of wine every 3 months is what most people do but make sure to add it to a cup of the wine or water and mix before adding it in, this is something I can't ever seem to remember and it defeats the purpose lol

 

[Turock]

Yes--the plum needs to bulk age. One year is a good time frame. If you allow enough bulk aging time, the astringency often improves as those unstable esters will fall out.

 

[user 31015]

One year! Ouch! Why are the time differences so great between, say, a plum wine and a DB? Is part of it down to the fruit? Or something in the making? I want to understand the principles better. And how about the pear?

 

[user 31015]

Tonight I added some k-meta to the pear (first dose) and took a taste. Wow, it is really good! It is mellow and buttery like a Chardonnay but with some sharpness like a Sav and then lovely pear fragrance throughout.

I am sort of wondering if I should just bottle it and be done with it, but a a flavor pack might also be a good idea. It is 16% (oops!) after all and too strong for a table wine. Thoughts?

I also think it could do with a little tannin or oak or something. That roundness might really finish it off nicely. Do people do anything to pear at this stage along those lines? I don't think it needs much, but some would be great, maybe?



(Really wish I had bought a ton more of those pears now, 30 cents a kilo (2lb) is awesome!)

 

[Boatboy24]

At 16% ABV, all you need is a little neutral brandy and a slight flavor boost (say from an f-pac), and you've got yourself a pear port style wine.

If you go with any kind of sweetening though, be sure to use sorbate along with your KMeta.

 

[user 31015]

Yeah, my plum is in the same situation. Where can I read how to turn these into port?

 

[Turock]

Actually, pear ages very well. As it approaches the 2 year mark, it smoothes and softens. There's nothing better than a 2 year old pear.

You'll find that most fruit wines need at least 1 year in bulk aging to firm up the flavor and to drop sediment. You should not bottle cloudy wine, especially when sweetened because sorbate cannot work when so many yeast cells are present.

This is how we ended up with 80 carboys---it takes time to bulk age wines, do MLF's, oaking procedures. Rushing into bottling young wines --you're missing out on the flavors that develop when the wine is aged. And young wines are not stable with all the sediment and unwanted esters in them. Given enough time, these fall free from the wine creating stability. If you want smooth and balanced wines, you need to give them the time they need. You don't throw a 6 month old child out in the world to fend for itself---it takes time to grow up. You have to invest some time in your wines so that they grow up too.

 

[user 31015]

Hehehe, great tips, thanks! Do you MLF all your fruit wines? This isn't something I know a lot about.

You have all convinced me to keep the plum and pear in their carboys a good deal longer. Now I think I will definitely need some more as I want a few productions that I can drink a little sooner!

 

[cmason1957]

Look in the recipes for Dragons Blood. You can be drinking it in 4-6 weeks, some day less. There are as many variations of it, as there are people on this forum.

 

[user 31015]

Yup! I have a blackcurrant DB rolling now. Lots of extra berries, the kitchen smells like a Ribena factory!

I am wondering what are the differences between wines when a DB is ready in 4ish weeks and my other wines need another year? I am curious about the winemaking reasons behind this.

Also, damn, I want more carboys and stuff now. It is a good time to pick up a ton more pears, I reckon, and the first batch is so far so tasty I definitely want to try more!

Also, does anyone oak or late tannin their pear wine?

 

[Turock]

You wouldn't want to MLF fruit wines---except apple and maybe pear. The MLF takes the fruitiness out of the wine.

I've never oaked pear wine, so it would take some experimentation. We DO make cinammon pear, using cinammon extract. Sometimes I use it while cooking pork chops or ham--really comes out nice. You could also try vanilla extract (making your own extract) too.

Hungarian oak might be a nice choice for pear since it lends a sort of caramel flavor. I don't think pear needs extra tannin--but if you would like it a tad more astringency, you could give it a try--especially in the primary where it will integrate better. But be sure not to add the tannin until the first stirring or punchdown of the must because it will inactivate your pectic enzyme. So add the tannin after the pectic enzyme has done its work.

Plum is such a delicate flavor, even if you use no water. So it really needs time for the flavor to firm up as much as possible. Even some additional bottle aging is an option.

 

[user 31015]

Thanks. Oh, didn't realize MLF was a grape thing - good, one less skill to worry about!

The pear needs very little, in my opinion, but an oaky touch might be really pleasant. I will see if I can find some suitable oak around here and consider adding it.

The plum, well, it has been flavor packed so I think all it needs is time - in the jar first and then in the bottle. It might need back sweetening too. I will taste closer to bottling time and see how I feel about it, I guess.

Ta for the ongoing tips!

 

[peaches9324]

I added oak to a gal of pear wine and left it sit too long...it sucked! Only take 1 gal and oak. I'm convinced if I didn't leave it sit as long as it did it would of been great! So check it every month and let us know.. and Hungarian oak that is what I wanted to use but I used light oak its what I had on hand

 

[cmason1957]

I've never oaked pear wine, so it would take some experimentation. We DO make cinammon pear, using cinammon extract. Sometimes I use it while cooking pork chops or ham--really comes out nice. You could also try vanilla extract (making your own extract) too.

About how much cinnamon extract do you put in day a gallon of pear?

I have an apple and a past that we added a tablespoon each to. It hasn't made much distance, yet. Not sure how far to go with it.

 

[peaches9324]

quote; I've never oaked pear wine, so it would take some experimentation. We DO make cinammon pear, using cinammon extract. Sometimes I use it while cooking pork chops or ham--really comes out nice. You could also try vanilla extract (making your own extract) too.

I've got a gal. of apple wine still aging in jug was thinking about adding some cinnamon sticks I think that would work out nice and I'll definitely use it on ham and pork chops Good idea Turock! Sounds yummy!

 

[user 31015]

My blackcurrant Dragon Blood hit 1.000 today, so I cleared out the fruit. I also decided to carboy it because fermentation has slowed quite a bit. I was also left with 1.5lt left over. Not sure what to do with that. Fridge it for topping off the next racking?

Also pictured my pear and plum. The pear has gone a bit cloudy since I added k-meta. Boo.

The plum has a good deal of sediment at the bottom due to the flavor pack. Rack and top off with the blackcurrant maybe?

 

[user 31015]

Picture!



edit: Ordered some Hungarian oak - going to give it a go because it just feels right based on the recent pear tasting.