Wine Diamonds in a red wine?

[ceeaton]

Merlot - pH 3.52 TA 6.0g/L SG 0.992 @ 72*F - pitched MLB - added 2 oz medium french oak chips

These are my Merlot blend numbers from last spring (yeast originally pitched 5-10-15), a Chilean Merlot juice bucket with a lug each of Merlot, Cab Sauv and Malbec. Haven't taken a pH or TA number lately, but 1/2 the batch was bottled quite some time ago.

I just picked up my first 750ml bottle from the "wine sanctuary" (so much for safe wine @Johnd) and poured it into a cheap decanter from the early 80's. To my surprise there was quite the harvest of diamonds on the side of the bottle that had been laying closest to the ground. My basement is at 58*F and has been for about a month or so. Why am I seeing these diamonds with those numbers (which don't seem really high TA wise) and not a real low temperature?

Oh, the taste of this wine is not harsh or acidic (more than any other red), it is actually quite pleasant and enjoyable (hence the plucking of a bottle from it's safe sanctuary).

Please educate me (no rulers to the knuckles allowed)...

 

[Johnd]

Merlot - pH 3.52 TA 6.0g/L SG 0.992 @ 72*F - pitched MLB - added 2 oz medium french oak chips

These are my Merlot blend numbers from last spring (yeast originally pitched 5-10-15), a Chilean Merlot juice bucket with a lug each of Merlot, Cab Sauv and Malbec. Haven't taken a pH or TA number lately, but 1/2 the batch was bottled quite some time ago.

I just picked up my first 750ml bottle from the "wine sanctuary" (so much for safe wine @Johnd) and poured it into a cheap decanter from the early 80's. To my surprise there was quite the harvest of diamonds on the side of the bottle that had been laying closest to the ground. My basement is at 58*F and has been for about a month or so. Why am I seeing these diamonds with those numbers (which don't seem really high TA wise) and not a real low temperature?

Oh, the taste of this wine is not harsh or acidic (more than any other red), it is actually quite pleasant and enjoyable (hence the plucking of a bottle from it's safe sanctuary).

Please educate me (no rulers to the knuckles allowed)...

It's just your wine revolting against being pirated and consumed at 9 months of age!!!!

At any rate, it's not a wine fault, and doesn't affect the drink ability of your wine, don't sweat it. They form more quickly at low temperatures, which is why some do cold stabilization at near freezing temps. Storing at 58 won't stop it, just takes longer.

If you look in your wine books or do a search, you can read all about the chemistry if you're interested, but in the mean time, stay out of the sanctuary!!!!!!

 

[ceeaton]

It's just your wine revolting against being pirated and consumed at 9 months of age!!!!
..... but in the mean time, stay out of the sanctuary!!!!!!

I will confess, you warned me! I am a wine making youngin' and need to learn my lessons the hard way...but it tasted so good!

Just have to remember how good it will taste if I can keep my mitts off of it for another year. Either that or make more red wine.

I think I'll mortgage the house and make more red wine, yea that's what I'll do...

Edit: my wife just told me she got a 98 on her math test (miracles do happen!) so she'll probably be able to become a nurse, so I can make more wine and not mortgage the house. Also, those wine bottles have the first quality corks in them, so they will only last two years, so I had better keep drinking that wine before it goes bad.

 

[jgmann67]

Having tasted this wine, I can attest to the fact that this blend is very good. Green, with a little bitter on the palate that dissipates with decanting. Otherwise, a real winner. Great nose; medium to full body; palate is layered nicely.

I am a fan.

Now, keep your mits off-a-dat wine for at least another six months!

 

[ibglowin]

Its dropping out because you bottled it too soon and the wine had not been cold stabilized (to any level) before hand. It may have been clear when you bottled it but now its 58 degrees in your storage area so your having stuff starting to precipitate out from the low temps compared to what the wine has seen so far to date.

This is the biggest reason NOT to be in a hurry to bottle before 12 months at a minimum and at least one Winter.

 

[ceeaton]

Its dropping out because you bottled it too soon and the wine had not been cold stabilized (to any level) before hand. It may have been clear when you bottled it but now its 58 degrees in your storage area so your having stuff starting to precipitate out from the low temps compared to what the wine has seen so far to date.

This is the biggest reason NOT to be in a hurry to bottle before 12 months at a minimum and at least one Winter.

Thanks Mike. I didn't realize people cold stabilized reds, just thought it was for whites. At least I only bottled 5 gallons of it, still have 5 in a carboy in the basement, time for a little garage time! Have 8 gallons of Dornfelder to join it too, wouldn't want a carboy to get lonely.

 

[ceeaton]

Now, keep your mits off-a-dat wine for at least another six months!

I think I just sent you another 375 ml of that in the last batch of wines. Plenty more to come, remember you will have to do a side by side tasting to see what those finishing tannins did to half the batch. At this point they will be 750's since I've polished off all the 375's as of last night, oh bother...

 

[Floandgary]

I will confess, you warned me! I am a wine making youngin' and need to learn my lessons the hard way...but it tasted so good!

Just have to remember how good it will taste if I can keep my mitts off of it for another year. Either that or make more red wine.

I think I'll mortgage the house and make more red wine, yea that's what I'll do...

Edit: my wife just told me she got a 98 on her math test (miracles do happen!) so she'll probably be able to become a nurse, so I can make more wine and not mortgage the house. Also, those wine bottles have the first quality corks in them, so they will only last two years, so I had better keep drinking that wine before it goes bad.

Congrats to your wife! Don't know what it means having a winemaker (o) and a Nurse in the same household? You didn't happen to mention that you were making wine AND Diamonds did you!!! LOL

 

[Boatboy24]

Thanks Mike. I didn't realize people cold stabilized reds, just thought it was for whites. At least I only bottled 5 gallons of it, still have 5 in a carboy in the basement, time for a little garage time! Have 8 gallons of Dornfelder to join it too, wouldn't want a carboy to get lonely.

If your wine spends it's entire life from fermentation to bottle at 70 degrees, then you stick it in a fridge at 55 degrees for 3 months, you'll have some crystals fall out. You don't have to subject it to freezing cold temps, just at or a little below what you'll be storing it at (so I think). Also, be aware of what the cold stabilization might do to your pH.

 

[ceeaton]

If your wine spends it's entire life from fermentation to bottle at 70 degrees, then you stick it in a fridge at 55 degrees for 3 months, you'll have some crystals fall out. You don't have to subject it to freezing cold temps, just at or a little below what you'll be storing it at (so I think). Also, be aware of what the cold stabilization might do to your pH.

So if my pH rises too much, just leave them in there and don't rack off of them and move to a place the temperature is higher?

I'm assuming the pH rises because I'm removing tartaric acid, but I'm no chemist so I'm not betting any money on that one.

 

[Johnd]

I'm assuming the pH rises because I'm removing tartaric acid, but I'm no chemist so I'm not betting any money on that one.

You actually have to be a little careful here, there is a Ph at which cold stabilization will actually lower your Ph, ie. increase the acidity.

I'm at work away from my wine notes, and at my age, I forget stuff, but I think it's 3.4 or 3.5 that's the magic number. Don't hold me to that Ph, but the line in the sand does exist.......

 

[ceeaton]

You actually have to be a little careful here, there is a Ph at which cold stabilization will actually lower your Ph, ie. increase the acidity.

I'm at work away from my wine notes, and at my age, I forget stuff, but I think it's 3.4 or 3.5 that's the magic number. Don't hold me to that Ph, but the line in the sand does exist.......

Now you've done it, your making me do work. Actually I never tested the wines pH or TA after MLF since it tasted good. Guess I'll test it on both wines before I subject them to lower temperatures. I was hoping just to sit on my derrière and drink a few glasses of wine tonight.

 

[Johnd]

Now you've done it, your making me do work. Actually I never tested the wines pH or TA after MLF since it tasted good. Guess I'll test it on both wines before I subject them to lower temperatures. I was hoping just to sit on my derrière and drink a few glasses of wine tonight.

The divining line is at Ph 3.6, not the ones I posted earlier. I should have looked it up before I posted. If you're interested in some text on the subject, check out: http://extension.psu.edu/food/enology/analytical-services/assessment-of-cold-stabilization

 

[ibglowin]

You definitely need a pH meter if your going to stay in this and move on to the next step(s) like most of us do to some level. Even if you never do fresh grapes and only do juice buckets you should invest in a decent pH meter.

Bottlom lin is the wine needs to be stabelized before it goes in the bottle so you don't have tartrate(s) falling out of the bottle like wet cement. The pH CS point is around 3.6-3.65.

 

[Floandgary]

FROM WWW.WINEMAKERSACADAMY.COM

If you do have the means to reduce the temperature of your wine here is a simple formula for determining what the ideal cold stabilization temperature is.
Cold Stabilization Temp (C) = -(%Alcohol /2) -1
For example, if you have a wine at 15% alcohol by volume your ideal cold stabilization temperature would be -6.5 degrees (C) or 20.3 degrees (F).

There is one rather unfortunate side effect of cold stabilization. Colder temperatures increases a wines’ ability to absorb oxygen which leads to premature aging.

 

[ceeaton]

You definitely need a pH meter if your going to stay in this and move on to the next step(s) like most of us do to some level. Even if you never do fresh grapes and only do juice buckets you should invest in a decent pH meter.

Bottlom lin is the wine needs to be stabelized before it goes in the bottom so you don't have tartrate falling out of the bottle like wet cement. The pH CS point is around 3.6-3.65.

Oh I have a meter already, works great. Even have my chemicals for the TA test in the fridge so they don't go bad as quickly.

Wet cement is a very appropriate description.

 

[ceeaton]

There is one rather unfortunate side effect of cold stabilization. Colder temperatures increases a wines’ ability to absorb oxygen which leads to premature aging.

But I'll be oaky dokey if I'm topped up within an inch or so of the bung, right? Thanks for the formula.

Yea, it also holds on to it's CO2 better and makes it nearly impossible to degas!

So I'm seeing a pattern here. Ferment when it's warm. Age when it's cool. Degas when it warms up again, then bottle. Repeat cycle continuously until I die and someone else drinks all my hard work.

 

[ceeaton]

The divining line is at Ph 3.6, not the ones I posted earlier. I should have looked it up before I posted. If you're interested in some text on the subject, check out: http://extension.psu.edu/food/enology/analytical-services/assessment-of-cold-stabilization

John, thanks that is a nice paper on it, makes a lot of sense. But I still don't want to be a chemist, maybe a mad scientist, but not a chemist.

 

[ceeaton]

Okay, tested my wines. Merlot blend pH 3.66 TA 5.9 g/L. Dornfelder pH 3.78 TA 5.8 g/L.

So what kind of a pH jump are we talking here if I cold stabilize these? 3.78 is getting up there.

 

[Johnd]

Okay, tested my wines. Merlot blend pH 3.66 TA 5.9 g/L. Dornfelder pH 3.78 TA 5.8 g/L.

So what kind of a pH jump are we talking here if I cold stabilize these? 3.78 is getting up there.

If there's a way to determine that ahead of time, it is beyond my knowledge.