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Rice_Guy

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@sjjan your pump is a pressure based centrifugal pump. ,,,. With a floating lid it would be hard to vacuum.

The all in one is an oil less vacuum pump which works with small rigid carboys. Plastic as well as large tanks/ silos will suck in under minus seventy or eighty kPa
 

sjjan

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@sjjan your pump is a pressure based centrifugal pump. ,,,. With a floating lid it would be hard to vacuum.

The all in one is an oil less vacuum pump which works with small rigid carboys. Plastic as well as large tanks/ silos will suck in under minus seventy or eighty kPa
Thanks for the info. So the option that remains is to wait a few months for the CO2 to clear out and the wine to develop/clear further.
 

cmason1957

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Thanks for the info. So the option that remains is to wait a few months for the CO2 to clear out and the wine to develop/clear further.
If you talk with most commercial wineries and ask about degassing, they look at you like you have two heads or something. It isn't a step they even think about. It happens by the age old time method. Many times, the wine will age for two years or longer prior to bottling. It will all escape by then.
 

stickman

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Nice pump, cant tell for sure, but it looks like a flexible impeller style, some of those type can do forward and reverse flow, the tag indicates 3000 L/hr or about 13gpm.
 

sjjan

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The pump can pump both ways, yes. All I know that when I want to move 250
liter of wine from one tank to another it is done within a few minutes. However, the hoses are large in diameter and sometimes I wish I would have a smaller pump that would work in a more delicate way. The reason I opted for this pump and tanks is to be able to connect filters or other equipment from commercial winemakers in the area. The commercial guys have even suggested that to me and offered me their equipment to use if ever needed.
 

Rice_Guy

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sometimes I wish I would have a smaller pump that would work in a more delicate way. The reason I opted for this pump and tanks is to be able to connect filters or other equipment from commercial winemakers in the area.
a centrifugal pump operates by veins slinging fluid to the discharge opening, the pump head will leak backwards, ,,, as a result it can be throttled.
This contrasts with a positive displacement pump which pushes or pulls a constant volume. Positive displacement pumps can draw a vacuum and you could degas by pulling from a ground level discharge to a second floor/ three meter ambient pressure discharge. ,,,, but pistons are more expensive to buy and operate.
As noted commercial folks don’t worry about CO2. Removing gas is important if you are making a ninety day kit wine.
 
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At racking, rack a 5 gal carboy into a 6 with the pump. naturally leaving a large headspace. Vacuum line has a shut off valve. Pull a bit of a vacuum in the 6 gallon and shut off the valve. Let it sit and degass. CO2 will come out of solution and equalize the pressure. A gentle shake helps. Repeat as many times as you have time. Not too much vacuum if it is a glass carboy... Wash the 5 gallon and eventually rack it back. seems to work pretty well
 

sjjan

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At racking, rack a 5 gal carboy into a 6 with the pump. naturally leaving a large headspace. Vacuum line has a shut off valve. Pull a bit of a vacuum in the 6 gallon and shut off the valve. Let it sit and degass. CO2 will come out of solution and equalize the pressure. A gentle shake helps. Repeat as many times as you have time. Not too much vacuum if it is a glass carboy... Wash the 5 gallon and eventually rack it back. seems to work pretty well
Great but I don’t have carboys and my pump won’t be able to create a vacuum. See discussion above.
 

Rice_Guy

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IF you consider gas important . .
Great but I don’t have carboys and my pump won’t be able to create a vacuum. See discussion above.
the theory follows Henry’s Law:
(gas in solution) = K times (pressure of that molecule in the head space)

theoretically; you could build a top cover with an inexpensive foam gasket against the top rim of your stainless tank and constantly suck the headspace out with a simple vacuum cleaner to 1) constantly remove gases released so the pressure of the CO2 molecule is low in the headspace, 2) keep the wine under a low grade vacuum as 10 kPa and 3) speed up the natural release of CO2 to a shorter time like a week instead of a half year
 

sjjan

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IF you consider gas important . .

the theory follows Henry’s Law:
(gas in solution) = K times (pressure of that molecule in the head space)

theoretically; you could build a top cover with an inexpensive foam gasket against the top rim of your stainless tank and constantly suck the headspace out with a simple vacuum cleaner to 1) constantly remove gases released so the pressure of the CO2 molecule is low in the headspace, 2) keep the wine under a low grade vacuum as 10 kPa and 3) speed up the natural release of CO2 to a shorter time like a week instead of a half year
I do not have a lot of headspace with the variable height lids. I do have a vacuum cleaner. See some pictures of the lids I use. After primary fermentation is over, the lids are moved to sit on top of the wine or maybe just 1 cm above it. The water lock is removed eventually as well as the cooling lines. Some CO2 is pushed in the small heads pace from a CO2 bottle.
97F45B07-3D4A-49F2-9B0E-D7AECF41486B.jpeg
3231DA2A-D43A-4361-9A53-AB15F11B81D9.jpeg
 
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sjjan

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I just received the wine kits today. Enough to make 140 liter of about 36 USG of red wine. I will post a picture of the kit later. The commercial winemakers around me think that I am crazy and that no proper wine can come from it. I hope to prove them wrong or at least to learn from the experiment.
 

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@sjjan degassing of your wine will be similar to the commercial operations, and typically happens during pumping and transferring, especially at high flow rates. Turbulence as the wine passes through the pump, as well as passing through valves and fittings, often causes co2 to come out of solution and you will see this in the discharge hose as it occurs.
 

balatonwine

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The are Speidel tanks. It is a German brand and most commonly used over here in Europe.
I have Speidel tanks, the HDPE ones. I like them.
FWIIW: In Hungary, the more common stainless tanks are the Italian made Inox tanks. They tend to be less expensive than Speidel's.
 

sjjan

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I have Speidel tanks, the HDPE ones. I like them.
FWIIW: In Hungary, the more common stainless tanks are the Italian made Inox tanks. They tend to be less expensive than Speidel's.
Hi: we have the Italian tanks as well available over here, but with the winemakers around me all using Speidel tanks with the same fittings it makes some sense to me to join them.
 

chicken

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The tool I use to degas : Time.

And time also lets your wine bulk age.

With wine, time is your friend. Best to use what time you have to your advantage. Fine wine making takes time.
I have never degassed a wine in my life (didn't even know there was such a thing until maybe 5 years ago). It has never occurred to me to test for co2 either.

Our wine usually ages about a year before bottling, and is racked several times during the aging period (the earliest I've ever bottled was 6-7 months, with last year's chardonnay). That seems to be enough for the co2 to work its way out on its own.
 

balatonwine

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with the winemakers around me all using Speidel tanks with the same fittings it makes some sense to me to join them.
I think I am the only wine maker around here using Speidel HDPE tanks. In fact, I imported them from Switzerland as the ones I use are not available here. I do prefer them, and PE (poly ethylene) tanks, over SS tanks for the white wines I make (red wine is a different issue -- SS is better then for the longer term storage needed for reds). I find them easier to move and clean. But that is just me. Hope this helps.
 

sjjan

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I think I am the only wine maker around here using Speidel HDPE tanks. In fact, I imported them from Switzerland as the ones I use are not available here. I do prefer them, and PE (poly ethylene) tanks, over SS tanks for the white wines I make (red wine is a different issue -- SS is better then for the longer term storage needed for reds). I find them easier to move and clean. But that is just me. Hope this helps.
I had a look at your website. Very nice!

I have been to Hungary many times on my way to - at that time - my software company in initially Arad, later Timisoara, Romania. Been flying to Hertelendy Kastély as well, not that far from Lake Balaton. Also flew once to an airfield on the southern side of Lake Balaton, which was in an off season period with no tourists around. Been several times in Szeged in a nice boutique hotel.

hertelendy.jpg
At Hertelendy we were invited to a private airshow with the best Hungarian pilots stunting in front of us. The cool thing was that the airshow was supported by an orchestra on the airfield playing in sync with the airshow pilots performing to the music.

balaton.jpg
I just found this odd image of the visit to the lake in winter time. Maybe you recognize where it was?

The floating lids in the SS tanks are a help and not available in the HDPE versions as why I opted for the SS versions I think. Also, the attachments to the tanks fit the equipment of the other winemakers, so I could borrow a filter or something else.
 
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