Where to start?

[Old Philosopher]

I almost forgot about the 5 gallon bucket/carboy statement in your last post.

Almost all beer ingredient kits are designed to make 5 gallons. A 5 gallon bucket/carboy won't be big enough to deal with the fermentation process and the krausen (foamy head) that it will produce. You'll want a bigger bucket or carboy (6.5 gallon is typical for this) for your primary fermentation.

Thanks. That's the second time that's been pointed out to me. My local farm store has 7 gal food-grade buckets. How many to I need? Sounds like two, for one kit.

 

[Buffman]

Thanks. That's the second time that's been pointed out to me. My local farm store has 7 gal food-grade buckets. How many to I need? Sounds like two, for one kit.

You'll need only 1 bucket that size, as a primary. Plenty of headspace for the krausen. Some brewers rack the beer after 7-10 days, but it is not necessary, especially for extract kits. If you do rack to a secondary, though, the 7g bucket will be too much headspace - more chance of oxidation. I transfer to a 5g carboy when I need a secondary.

 

[TheTooth]

You'll need only 1 bucket that size, as a primary. Plenty of headspace for the krausen. Some brewers rack the beer after 7-10 days, but it is not necessary, especially for extract kits. If you do rack to a secondary, though, the 7g bucket will be too much headspace - more chance of oxidation. I transfer to a 5g carboy when I need a secondary.

+1 Only one bucket is necessary for fermentation. The only time you need to rack to a secondary is when you want to dry hop or add additional spicing without leaving the beer sitting on the yeast/trub. Most beers will ferment out completely and be ready to bottle within 7 - 14 days. You can safely leave your beer on the yeast/trub for 4 weeks before you need to start worrying about autolysis.

When I used to bottle my beer, I liked having a second bucket for bottling purposes, though. I would rack off the yeast/trub into the bottling bucket, which I already had sugar in for carbonation, and bottle from there.

 

[Old Philosopher]

You'll need only 1 bucket that size, as a primary. Plenty of headspace for the krausen. Some brewers rack the beer after 7-10 days, but it is not necessary, especially for extract kits. If you do rack to a secondary, though, the 7g bucket will be too much headspace - more chance of oxidation. I transfer to a 5g carboy when I need a secondary.

Now comes the bottling question. :< Sounds like that could get expensive. The Mr. Beer comes with 8 x 1 liter plastic bottles with screw caps. Can't find anything like that at FVW. They don't even tell you what kind of cap their 12 or 21 oz bottles take.

 

[TheTooth]

Now comes the bottling question. :< Sounds like that could get expensive. The Mr. Beer comes with 8 x 1 liter plastic bottles with screw caps. Can't find anything like that at FVW. They don't even tell you what kind of cap their 12 or 21 oz bottles take.

You really don't want to mess around with screw-top plastic bottles. When I bottled, I splurged on a few cases of the swing-top (also called grolsch-style) bottles. It was nice not dealing with a bottle-capper or having to keep buying bottle caps.

Also, bottle caps for bottles sold at most homebrew supply shops are going to be the same size.

 

[Buffman]

Avoid screw caps. You'll want the regular beer bottles or swing-tops. I, too, splurged on several cases of swing-top bottles (EZ Cap brand). They're 16oz., so bottling is faster and capping is easier. But they are definitely more expensive. If you go with 12oz or the larger "bomber" size, or both, you need a capper also. Like Tooth said, the caps are the same.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Avoid screw caps. You'll want the regular beer bottles or swing-tops. I, too, splurged on several cases of swing-top bottles (EZ Cap brand). They're 16oz., so bottling is faster and capping is easier. But they are definitely more expensive. If you go with 12oz or the larger "bomber" size, or both, you need a capper also. Like Tooth said, the caps are the same.

My bro-in-law (may he rest in peace) left us the wine stuff, and he was also brewing. I have about a half-dozen swing-top bottles from him, but they are about 10 oz., and 6 is not enough to get anywhere.
Mr. Beer ( ) et al, will let you bottle 7.5 one liter bottles (included), or the equivalent of 21 12oz bottles. A kit will yield about 53 12oz bottles.
Humm...
A 5 gallon batch = 19 liters, or about 53 12oz bottles of beer.
12 swing-top 1 liter bottles = $42.00
50 swing-top 12 oz bottles = $106.00
48 standard 12 oz bottles = $29.00
A bottle capper runs about $16.00, and the caps are $4.00/gross (144)

Plus, if I get everyone to save me their bottles, I'll probably have enough free ones by the time the brew is ready. Hehehe.

 

[Malkore]

+1 Only one bucket is necessary for fermentation. The only time you need to rack to a secondary is when you want to dry hop or add additional spicing without leaving the beer sitting on the yeast/trub.

This part is very debatable. I get much clearer beers when I do a secondary. But, I always secondary in glass, not plastic, and I won't always secondary. depends on the style and such.

again, very debatable, which is why I wanted to offer my counter-point.

 

[TheTooth]

This part is very debatable. I get much clearer beers when I do a secondary. But, I always secondary in glass, not plastic, and I won't always secondary. depends on the style and such.

again, very debatable, which is why I wanted to offer my counter-point.

Good point... you can get more clarity that way. I've been kegging for a few years now, so I'm used to my beer clearing so well in the keg that it's unnecessary. Clarity is overrated, though... especially if you're making darker beers.

Also... I should add that if you are going to do a secondary, use a carboy as Malkore says. You don't want to keep exposing your beer to more oxygen through the oxygen-permeable plastic walls of a bucket.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Also... I should add that if you are going to do a secondary, use a carboy as Malkore says. You don't want to keep exposing your beer to more oxygen through the oxygen-permeable plastic walls of a bucket.

Wouldn't a plastic carboy have the same permeability as a bucket? Is it the walls of the bucket, or the fact that you can't always seal it air tight?

 

[TheTooth]

Wouldn't a plastic carboy have the same permeability as a bucket? Is it the walls of the bucket, or the fact that you can't always seal it air tight?

That's another great debate. LOL

Better Bottle plastic carboys are said to be as good as glass, while other plastic carboys are said to be as bad as a bucket.

The walls of the bucket are the issue. Oxygen leeches through the walls and into you beverage. This isn't really an issue during primary fermentation, but if you are going to transfer to store for extra clearing after fermentation is complete it could be an issue.

I know this is a contentious subject, but I honestly recommend not bothering with a secondary. The beer will clear in the bottle while carbonating and chilling anyway. Whether or not you use a secondary, you will end up with sediment on the bottom of the bottle from the carbonation process.

On a side note, you'll want to pour your beer into a glass to enjoy it, decanting it off the sediment that will collect on the bottom of the bottle. If you just dump out the bottle or drink out of the bottle (disturbing the sediment as you tip it into your mouth), you'll end up with a cloudy beer full of yeast. Bleah.

 

[Wade E]

I agree with Malkore about racking into glass. If Im doing a Wheat beer then it stays in the bucket but most others come out and clear in carboy for awhile. I keg now but beer bottles can b grabbed very easy. If you know someone that works at a bar or have some beer drinking buddies you can have enough in no time at all. Caps are cheap and so is the capper. I always rack to clean vessel before bottling an add the sugar there and make sure you keep stirring while your bottling so you dont end up with some flat bottles and some bottle bombs! Another option is the carbonating tablets but I prefer the sugar myself.

 

[Old Philosopher]

I agree with Malkore about racking into glass. If Im doing a Wheat beer then it stays in the bucket but most others come out and clear in carboy for awhile. I keg now but beer bottles can b grabbed very easy. If you know someone that works at a bar or have some beer drinking buddies you can have enough in no time at all. Caps are cheap and so is the capper. I always rack to clean vessel before bottling an add the sugar there and make sure you keep stirring while your bottling so you dont end up with some flat bottles and some bottle bombs! Another option is the carbonating tablets but I prefer the sugar myself.

Thanks guys, all great info!
I would go with the sugar, because I (we) avoid any strange chemicals when possible.
TT. educate me here. O2 is a big issue with wine making. My understanding is that is the purpose of an airlock on your secondary. Yet I haven't heard anybody talking about O2 leaching through 1st or ND fermenter walls. Why is it critical with beer, and not wine?

 

[TheTooth]

Thanks guys, all great info!
I would go with the sugar, because I (we) avoid any strange chemicals when possible.
TT. educate me here. O2 is a big issue with wine making. My understanding is that is the purpose of an airlock on your secondary. Yet I haven't heard anybody talking about O2 leaching through 1st or ND fermenter walls. Why is it critical with beer, and not wine?

Limiting oxygen exposure is critical to making better beer and wine. That's why primary fermentation of your wine is fine in a plastic bucket, but after the first couple weeks when it's mostly reached it's terminal gravity you need to move it to a glass or better bottle carboy with an airlock.

The airlock's purpose is 2-fold, though. While it does work to keep oxygen out of your wine/beer, it also prevents other contaminants and wild yeast from getting in and spoiling your beer/wine.

 

[Old Philosopher]

Limiting oxygen exposure is critical to making better beer and wine. That's why primary fermentation of your wine is fine in a plastic bucket, but after the first couple weeks when it's mostly reached it's terminal gravity you need to move it to a glass or better bottle carboy with an airlock.

The airlock's purpose is 2-fold, though. While it does work to keep oxygen out of your wine/beer, it also prevents other contaminants and wild yeast from getting in and spoiling your beer/wine.

Understand all that, but after a couple weeks of intense research, I've found dozens of wine makers who use plastic secondaries. Your comments are the first I've heard of them being permeable to O2.

 

[Wade E]

Beer will be in and out much faster and since you dont degas your beer it doesnt really get much exposure to 02 as its still usually saturated with C02

 

[Old Philosopher]

Beer will be in and out much faster and since you dont degas your beer it doesnt really get much exposure to 02 as its still usually saturated with C02

Now THAT makes sense. Thanks, Wade.

 

[Wade E]

Better bottles are not permeable. Water bottles are but the small amount is probably no big deal and might be good as small amount of 02 are good for wine and 1 of 2 reasons the world ages wine in barrels. I just dont like them because I can taste what it does when water is in there for long and the fact that they are flimsy.

 

[TheTooth]

Understand all that, but after a couple weeks of intense research, I've found dozens of wine makers who use plastic secondaries. Your comments are the first I've heard of them being permeable to O2.

Got me on that. I personally don't know of anyone that uses plastic as a secondary for anything. Of course, most of my experience is with homebrewing. I'm still pretty new to winemaking. Everything I've read on it, though, says that you are trying to limit oxygen just like with beer, so I try to steer clear of long-term storage in plastic.

The exception to this is better bottles, which are supposed to be made with a new plastic process which is supposed to suppress gas permeability to near-glass levels.

Wade has a good point that your oxygen exposure in a week or two will be minimal... so you're probably ok with that. If you already have carboys from your winemaking, though, it won't hurt to use one of them for your secondary (bright tank, really, as fermentation should be completed before racking the beer to the second vessel).

 

[TheTooth]

"How to Brew" by John Palmer is a great book to read for someone who wants to start homebrewing.

You can buy his book if you want a hardcopy, but he also posts it for free online at:
http://www.howtobrew.com/