When to pick

[WellingtonToad]

I was out to lunch with a wine making friend today. (he makes really good wines). I asked what was his epiphany with learning to make wine.

From his response the thing that stood out to me was to pick the grapes on pH not on Brix/Baume. His target is to not add Tartaric acid during the winemaking process.

Ideally, the pH at picking will be 3.35 - 3.45 so that it can mature to an ideal of3.55 in the pressing.

Somehow this approach appeals to me. I just thought I would put it out there for others to comment.

 

[salcoco]

I used to measure brix every two days until I reached close to my goal of 22, then I would crush a sample and measure acid and ph along with brix every day until time to pick.

 

[JohnT]

We talk a lot about winemaking, but grape growing is a whole different art form. Hat's off to you guys! I can't imagine the amount of worry and stress that those vines give you during the growing season, but I would think that the amount of satisfaction you get in the end will more than make up for it.

 

[NorCal]

I manage the 50 ton harvest for our community, selling to a dozen local wineries. We only provide Brix readings and if they want to, they can comes take their own samples to do other tests, which a few do. All pick on brix and may or may not adjust acid.

 

[NorCal]

On a side note, the wineries really hold out harvesting; the earliest at 25 and the latest 27-28 brix. By then the pH is 3.7-3.8. The resulting wine at the 27-28 brix is quite jammy, but they are a very successful winery and it just won a gold medal in the SF Chronicle competition, so who is to argue.

 

[WellingtonToad]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

NorCal what you describe is where I have been with my wine making. I currently purchase from another vineyard, but this is year 3 for my own vines so I may be able to change things up.

Having said that, my friend who has been making wine for 10 years more than me described what he does. His wines are always better than mine. It could be that he is just a better winemaker, but I would like to emulate what he does.

At 3.7-3.8, there is a need to add tartaric to get the balance in the wine. I have started to believe that nature does it best. All of our additions are just patches for what we have done wrong. Give nature the best chance it has to get it right.

I may be on the wrong train, but that's why I put this thread up.

Trying for the subtle complexity and balance that comes from the true art of winemaking.

 

[NorCal]

I think getting the grapes when the sugar is where they want it to be, vs the pH is due to chaptalization not being legal in California.

 

[Runningwolf]

It really depends on the grapes you're harvesting. If I'm harvesting Niagara, I picking around 13 brix and adjust sugar. After that you start to get a petroleum taste in them. Other grapes are picked closer to 22 brix. I am in the farmers fields picking random clusters and bringing them back to the lab to test regularly until they are ready. Additionally you have to look at the weather forecast. If it is going to rain or not rain for a few days how will that affect the chemistry? When my customers come in they get the TA, PH and brix.

 

[GreginND]

I think getting the grapes when the sugar is where they want it to be, vs the pH is due to chaptalization not being legal in California.

Which is exactly my problem with a lot of California wines. I wish they would pick them at a little bit lower brix. I find the alcohol levels of 15-17 these days are a bit ridiculous and unbalanced.

 

[WellingtonToad]

Ok, I get it. We all like the "hit" we get from alcohol. Side by side a higher alcohol wine is going to be liked by more people than a lower alcohol wine.
But good wine is good wine!!! This is regardless of the alcohol content. For any given batch of grapes, they may be suited to a low or a high alcohol wine.
It is not the alcohol content that determines whether the wine is good, it is the balance in the wine. If the alcohol is out of balance it is not a good wine.

How to determine when to pick to suit the best possible outcome for the wine? That is what I am about.

Over the short time that I have been making wine, about 4 years, my tastes in wine have changed dramatically. I now need to spend $40 per bottle to get something enjoyable, it was once $20. Even so, there are bottles at $45 that I would not consider buying. They just are not up to the standard.
My tastes have changed. I want premium wine, but I have a beer budget. The only way is to make it myself.

I like the comment from Salcoco, in that it covers a minimum acceptable alcohol level then lets the grapes decide the right point to pick. Salcoco seems to be alone in this though.

 

[salcoco]

I appreciate your comments on my approach. But it sounds to me that you do not have total control of the picking protocol and are stuck with whatever you can buy.
A high brix grape can be diluted with acidified water, that is water with at least 7g/l of acid added. get the brix down to 22-23, check the Ph then ferment. if still to hot at end of fermentation and minimum aging do some bench trials with either acid or sugar syrup to get the balance you desire. If you are going through a MLF sugar additions are out because you must use sorbate. the bench trial concept makes for a balanced wine that usually must be consumed early. if you want a long aging wine and you have high alcohol I would increase that tannin let age and the two may meld together to get the right balance over two to three years.