Other When is a kit really outdated?

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arcticsid

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My LHBS has several outdated kits she is willing to make me a deal on.

Didn't have time yesterday to see what she had, I'll get there in the next day or so and get back to you on opinion and price.

My question is however, when is a kit outdated?

What makes it outdated? Is it the yeast?

How outdated is too far? In what way could the quality of the result be affected by being "outdated"?

Lastly what kind of a discount should I expect for a kit that NEEDS to be sold? %50 of original price?

Please Advise.

Troy
 

mmadmikes1

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I'd offer 20% because you may be thowing away money(at least thats what you say) Remember that cheap thread yesterday. Prove yourself:)
 

DageonYar

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I'd offer to take it for free, and if they turn out ok, pay in wine ;)
 

arcticsid

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Not a bad idea fellas.

What really is in a kit. Concentrated juice, "chemical/additives"? hell I already have those on hand. And when it comes to yeast(if they are included) I would most definitely buy fresh. I remeber some of those kits were up there gettin spendy like, 100 dollars plus. For what? Concentrated juice?

Please advise further.

Troy
:d:d:d
 

arcticsid

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Mike I am so cheap/frugal, I should start a thread on it's own. LOL

Just dont see any reason to spend 40 or 50 skins for a kit, when all that is usable is the juice.

I'm not being cheap, just trying to be reasonable.:b

Troy
 

Wade E

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Id say that 2 years old is probably as old as Id buy and I wouldnt pay much more the 1/2 price for it. Id surely get new yeast for all these kits but make a starter with the yeast included and if it fires up use it and save the new yeast for a future batch. Some of these (juice concentrates) are from pretty prestigious growers so dont knock them if they are the bigger kits. I dont buy the cheesy kits (nothing smaller then 16 liter) kits with grape skins for me but I only like big chewy reds and not this reds. All the other chems in there should be fine unless they got frozen and then the fining agents would most likely need to be replaced. if it were a white wine kit the juice should be a nice golden or straw color. Reds should be red and not brown. If I were you Id print out the manufacturer codes we have on this site so you know what you are buying. Im not to fond of Winexpert reds unless they are the Crushendos!
 

arcticsid

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Thanks Wade, didn't have the time the other day to see what she had. Don't want to take advantage of them, but if they need to sell it or lose it, I would consider a kit.

2 yrs seems like a long time. She just emailed me and I got the impression she "indded have some outdated kits". Didn't sound like these were real old.

So I'll see what she has and let you all know. If she has enough of these outdated kits available, this might be a nice time for her to consider a workshop, etc. Buy the kit and supplies and talk wine making, and dog sledding etc. :D

I just dont want to end up paying $50 or more for a pouch of concentrated juice if it has issues. I realize all the rest of whats in the kit is on hand anyway.

In your opinion, are these outdated kits worth buying, or is it gona be a potential issue, non fermentation, etc.? And sure not knocin the growers, maybe I should have asked, " is this a cheap wat to sample this growers wine?"

Troy
:b
 
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arcticsid

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oh yeah,

I dont have the accessibility you have for alot of these beautiful juices. A concentrate from a kit is about as close as I will get.

Wanted to ask anybody in here who is familiar with shipping juice to contact me, if the price and logistics are right for shiping from the west coast, I'd like to hear more. I know all of the food purveyors here so shipping might not be to big of a thing. I assume these have some sort of a pasturization, do the come froze, etc.?
Troy
 

Wade E

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The bags these juices are in are triple walled and can withstand alot including time. like I said as long as the juice wsnt stored in very hot temos and the fining agents didnt freeze theyll be fine to around 2 years, after that Id stray from them. Lots of these kits are sourced from much better places then the juice buckets are!
 

arcticsid

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Points taken man. Thanks. Will keep you posted.
 

arcticsid

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I was kinda thinking about these 5 gallons buckets of juice I hear about in here!! LOL

Points still appreciated on the kits.
 

smurfe

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The juice is the bulk of the price of the kit and thats what you pay for in a kit. All the other stuff in a kit can be cheaply replaced. I have bulk Bentonite, Sorbate, K-Meta and Super Kleer that I use for home made wines. I have all kinds of packets of yeast as well. That stuff is cheap. The oldest kit I have made was around a year expired and it was just fine.
 

cpfan

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Troy:

My answer is that it depends on the kit and the storage conditions. I have seen whites that seemed off colour prior to 12 months old (don't recall brand/variety). I have seen other whites (specifically Spagnols Grand Cru Chamblaise) that had excellent colour at 15-16 months.

Reds seem to oxidize more slowly than whites.

Steve
 

Wade E

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Or maybe its just harder to notice a red oxidizing then a white.
 

Lakewood Wines

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Wine Kits use by Date

Let's remember that when they create the concentrate, the juice is put in a vacuum which allows the juice to boil at a very low temperature. The concentrate is boiled off to about 68 Brix .
Degrees Brix (symbol °Bx) is a measurement of the dissolved sugar-to-water mass ratio of a liquid, so 68 Brix is 68% fructose/32% Water. When you remove more water to increase the concentrate to more than 68 Brix, the fructose will begin to come out of liquid mix and crystals will appear.
If the wine kit has an appearance of crystals, make it quick.
There is also the change of color of the juice, the reds will have a brown opacity and the whites a gold
opacity, although it is questionable if the change in color will affect the taste.
If you were to test the concentrate for PH , Tannins and acid content and it was within spec, Make the wine it will probably be fine.
 

arcticsid

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Thanks for the info Frank, your expertise in here is appreciated.

Troy
 
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