when good wines gone bad

Discussion in 'Equipment & Sanitation' started by joeswine, Jul 23, 2011.

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how many have used or tried using ZESTING

  1. how many will try

    77.8%
  2. how many not

    22.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Jul 23, 2011 #1

    joeswine

    joeswine

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    hello fellow wine makers ,my name is joe's wine and I would like to discuss with you the subject (when good wines gone bad ),for the few who have seen it on other forums stand by and for those of you who have not ,its your turn to THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX,.

    Have you ever made a wine and for some reason it just didn't turn out what you expected it to be, and didn't understand what went wrong,well i have and after 1o year of making and correcting I finally figured out how to correct most problems or take a so, so wine and enhance it,I would like to go through for you the methods I used to correct some long term problems and short...:f

    we have all made a good fpac,or have we,we know how to make and use ZEST,to enhance the finish of our wine?and do we have a good understanding of which yeast to use for what type of wine were making,do we also know how to use OAK and how to layer body into a wine,after all a wine is like a good sauce and we make a good sauce in layers ,we cellar dwellers have the time to make small corrections and change things quickly if we have a tool kit at hand to do the job required..also the body and the structure of wine and the type of wine your trying to make is some of the items I would like to put forth in WHEN GOOD WINES GONE BAD...


    we will start with selecting a wine type and proceed from her,stay tooned:b
     
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  2. Jul 24, 2011 #2

    Tom

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    ALL,
    Listen to Joe. He also is a member of the SJWINEMAKERS with me. Remember his quote "Think Outside The Box" Some of what he does may seam unorthodox as well.
    This is not directed at "kit wines" but rather take a different approach to winemaking. Adding things a different times, layering flavors, adding flavors you may not think of adding.
    Also look here as I have a pdf of Wine Profiles http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3475 . Look at what the profile of your wine is. Think of what it says when it says "traces of Bleckberry" or "Hint of citrus"

    This should be a neat thread

    Go get them Joe!~
     
  3. Jul 24, 2011 #3

    joeswine

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    lets start out with some good wine tools that everyone should learn how to master and know when to use ,and how to effectively how to use them..

    Fpacs,fresh or prepared,Zest,knowing how to us and enhance a wine that's just doesn't have any brightness,extracts very important in cellos and making liqueurs as well as holiday wines.
    having a good wine repair kit is also helpful,pectic enzyme ,kmet, grape concentrate ,white wine conditioner,powdered oak or chestnut ,along with french oak or american oak( your preference),glycerin,ample amounts of simple syrup (2 to 1 formula) there can be more but these are the basics....having these at hand is a time saver..............

    lets take FPACS,,,most of us know how to prepare one take the fruit of choice and wash it well add it to a 14 inch. sauce pan and cook it down till its more like a preserve,also add a pinch of kmet at that time ,a little water to loose it up a tad..some simple syrup if needed and let it cool .ready for use,but what if up didn't cook the fruit,this style fpac is what I call a fresh press enfusion- EX>( fresh black berries) squeezed by hand (you want some of the fruit still in tact)place pulp and juice right in the wine and let monserrate,say I had a pinot noir, and wanted to add fruit,this would be one way of enhancing the original wine with the addition of fruit ,quite nice I can a test to ,blackberry pinot noir.....and not a kit either,Fpacs have their place in the tool kit great to perfect and use.THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX:mny

    how many out there ever made white wine whether be a kit or juice and it is just not that flavorful..or how many out there ever made a wine that the flavor just didn't hold up..I'll bet all of us...

    Enter the Zest pac..that's right the zest pac..citrus zest is the extraction of essential oils out of the skins of the fruit EX.orange peal just the color portion not the pith,that portion of the orange which is rich in flavor and essence, knowing whenn and how to use them ..N:mnyEXT TIME
     
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  4. Jul 24, 2011 #4

    Runningwolf

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    Joe, I wish I had read this three weeks ago. I added six oranges to my Chilean Muscato. Next time, it's zest!

    Just think what that would do for Skeeter Pee!
     
  5. Jul 25, 2011 #5

    Tom

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    Dan, all

    Listen and learn from the Professor..:sm
     
  6. Jul 25, 2011 #6

    joeswine

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    when god wines gone bad

    wolfman....never to late a good comp for whites is the zest of 2 oranges ,2 lemons,2 grapefruit,,,,perfect to bring out the brightness in a white wine...............if you wanted to add body its never to late buy 3to 4 lbs of thompson seedless grapes hand squeeze them and place them as they are in the wine ,let them infuse into the wine 2/3 weeks remove and add the finishing chems.and refinding agent.......better body...:br or better yet golden raisins for 2/3 weeks the finish wine as always..:se
     
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  7. Jul 25, 2011 #7

    Runningwolf

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    Joe, I had the six oranges in for about 3-4 weeks and getting ready to pull them out. You think I would still benefit with the zest from 2 oranges, lemons and grapefruits in a bag? This is with my Chilean muscet.
     
  8. Jul 25, 2011 #8

    joeswine

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    The use of zest goes back a long way,as well as the use of fresh fruit in wine,the greeks ,romans and etruscans all used fruit in there wine and probably others also,certain nuts and vegetables are also used ,I my self haven's use them but I know of others who have,h.the use of zest is very compamentre to wine ,:to remove the zest use a micro plain .(hand help screader) found at any good household supply store,rotate you fruit around until only the color is removed do as much as you will use ,the skin on the fruit will harden again ,then apply the zest to the wine ,direct in after 2 weeks it will almost dissolve and the rest will settle to the bottom,,,done,,,:se
     
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  9. Jul 25, 2011 #9

    joeswine

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    when good wine gone bad

    did you cut up the fruit? if so you stated you placed them in a bag can you see them? does it look like the fruit color is dissolved off if so your done.:mny
     
  10. Jul 25, 2011 #10

    Runningwolf

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    Thanks Joe, no straining bag then.
     
  11. Jul 25, 2011 #11

    Runningwolf

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    I did cut up the fruit and put it in the carboy with out a bag. I was going to rack off tomorrow. I removed all of the skin and pith before putting the piece in. So once again should I still do the zesting?
     
  12. Jul 25, 2011 #12

    joeswine

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    let your taste buds decide,sometimes placing raw fruit in wine can make the wine bitter ,you need to taste and see whats transpired,if you think its ok, or still need at kick then by all means do the grapefruit zest only....just zest,if you think its to bitteradd a little simple syurp.alittle at a time once its in thers no out,or is there remember its onlt juice....think outside the box
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
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  13. Jul 25, 2011 #13

    joeswine

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    have you ever noticed that most kit mfg. always send you the same yeast? does that mean that that is the correct yeast for the type or style of wine ,do some research and have in your wine tool box a small variety of yeast types to fit the styles for you,yeast has distinctive profiles for different wine charastics,go on the lavin website and look at there metrics chart..see what wines in there option work best with different yeast strains and bring out the best for those particular styles and abv. .don't trust word of mouth, to much, because everyone's taste level is different,meaning, how well developed are there taste buds to little nounces and fine tuned notes In a wine ,get it ,do the research..:b
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
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  14. Jul 25, 2011 #14

    joeswine

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    :gnok we did fpacs and zesting,we talked a little about yeast,and looking for the correct one to best suit your particular wines needs,how about the body and structure of a wine I like to brake it down to texture and density,there are 3 different bodies of wine density thin,med,and full,but how do we create body in wine ? Usually it starts with the raw product and goes from there,but what if you produce a wine that is very thin (I have) what can you do to add body to a wine?:dg

    Well there are somethings you can try and they just might work if your tool box has been prepared .first lets take a basic cabernet do we first know what the definition on a cab is? I think all to often we don't and rely on what someone else is calling a cab ,do the research,,go head just a little,:dog ok now we know what a real cab is supposed to finish like,,,but yours don't (kit or juices doesn't matter).what to do ,.;)
    first decide whats wrong,not enough bite ,out of balance,to sweet to dry,not enough body,(remember texture and body )

    Were to start,well lets say not enough body for starters,,back to the tool box,remove the wine from its container and place in a clean and sanitize carboy this is assuming the wine is finished and the product your left with is the subject,fill the carboy as far as it will go ,lets say your short of six gallons but not 5 gallons ,then remove enough to add 1.5 cups of oak your choice and 1 lb. of raisins put your air lock on mark you comment tag and wait ,after a few days or a week the raisins will start to infuse the wine and the oak will start to add the body and mouthfeel after 3/4 weeks ,draw a sample and check sg..at this point you will have picked up several points on the abv. and the raisins will have given you enough enfusion,to add texture,at this point add the basic chems,. and finding agent ,let it sit,after 3 weeks take another sample ,check sg, and taste ..their should be a excellent improvement in the overall taste and body of the wine......:gif for some reason your wine doesn't have enough fruit taste in it check in your tool box and see if you have grape concentrate..a small adjust to your taste could be needed if not .your wine should have been corrected to a point ,where you would lie to share it with your fiends:gn
     
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  15. Jul 26, 2011 #15

    joeswine

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    LETS TALK EXTRACTS:mny


    this is a very fun topic,Tom and I have done a lot on this subject,,,EXTRACTS..what are they ,well there the extraction on the essence of a substances such as a n orange ,lemon grapefruit and the like..:sm

    preparation:take 1/2 dozen oranges and using a micro planner or a zester grader,remove only the colored surface of the fruit ,not the white out (the pith).now once this is done use either everclear or vodka,place the everclear in a ball canning jar,place the zest in the jar and fill the balance with either liquid you chose,let it sit for a m9nth and at the end of that time period ,it should have all settled out to the bottom of the jar and a bright vibrant color and essence is left behind :)THIS IS EXTRACT)

    ex.for a holiday wine,,6 cinnamon sticks in everclear,orange extract already made up,everclear,ans simple syrup.:sm

    base wine PLUM..3 /4 bottles of base wine to a large pot ,mix in orange zest and cinnamon 0 to taste go slow a little at a time taste for balance and what you want the master flavor to finish with add simple syrup to taste (always to taste)..let it sit in the frig. for 24hrs. bring out and taste again before the finial verdict...easy and simple holiday wine ..extracts are a key player in your tool box.:br
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2011
  16. Jul 28, 2011 #16

    joeswine

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    ZESTING and the use of:try

    lets be clear on the how to of zest,:try

    what is it, the essence of a produc or essecial oils,ex. Orange/lemon/grapefruit just to name a few,the extraction process isn't hard just takes time d

    how to:EX. orange zest,take 8 oranges (eating oranges are best for this work,use a micro plainer,or zest grader,and only remove the colored portion of the fruit (no pith) white portion is bitter not to be used,get it,,:b

    AGENT FOR REMOVAL OF ZEST:tz

    There are to know agents to best do this process with,first EVERKLEER and second VODKA....

    IN a ball canning jar place the zest of the fruit,add to the balance of the jar either one of the two agents,I like everkleer,goes farther and stronger a better bite than the vodka,how ever if you like it milder the use the
    vodka................after a month look at the jar all should have settled to the bottom and should look a lot pailer than when you first put it in,open the jar carefully and smell the extract (first the alcohol hits you then the fruit..:b
    now you have extract..I done this with many a fruit and its a great tool in you tool fix-it box.............:cw
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  17. Jul 28, 2011 #17

    Sirs

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    thats cool on doing the extracts they can be used for lots more than wine also. I'm glad your adding this here really nice to have the knowledge written down.
     
  18. Jul 28, 2011 #18

    SpoiledRotten

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    I'm suscribed to this thread. Thanks Joe! :db
     
  19. Jul 28, 2011 #19

    Runningwolf

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    Sorry but your dues aren't paid! :)
     
  20. Jul 28, 2011 #20

    SpoiledRotten

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