What’s wrong with whipping to degas?

Discussion in 'General Wine Making Forum' started by kuziwk, Feb 13, 2020 at 5:12 AM.

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  1. Feb 14, 2020 at 11:32 PM #21

    kuziwk

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    How many pumps does it take?

    Also I thought a little bit of oxygen, such as through rackings helps with aging, why go through the trouble of vacuum racking?
    Commercial wineries age in oak which also expose the wine to oxygen, this makes the wine subjectively better.
     
  2. Feb 14, 2020 at 11:49 PM #22

    Wayne Freeman

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    I never count the pumps. I pump for maybe a minute or so each time, until it's bubbling pretty well. Of course, after a few days, the bubbling decreases and I have to look closer to find any bubbles. It also depends on how much head space there is. I'll do this every time I make a trip down to the basement for any reason at all, which is several times a day (the garage and freezer are on the same floor as the wine cellar). It usually takes a week or so to degas. I figure it's a more natural method, like what happens in an oak barrel due to the slight negative pressure from the wine's soaking into the wood and evaporation.
     
  3. Feb 15, 2020 at 12:16 AM #23

    DoctorCAD

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    There is a difference between gross oxygen exposure and micro-oxidation created by the pores in an oak barrel.
     
  4. Feb 15, 2020 at 1:06 AM #24

    kuziwk

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    Right but racking from the bottom up...is it really that bad? Other than that we are not getting any other form of oxygen into a sealed up carboy. It would be cool if we had some sort of micro oxy units to mimic a barrel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020 at 1:32 AM
  5. Feb 15, 2020 at 1:45 AM #25

    Johnd

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    The microx units you speak of already exist, they are very expensive. Barrels and flex tanks are your best bang for the buck. Flex tanks don’t provide oak taste in your wine, you must use adjuncts to do that.
     
  6. Feb 15, 2020 at 8:52 PM #26

    Amanda660

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    I used to whip to degas but now just let time do it for me. I really think I'm making better wine going the slow road :) I also think racking my wines with my AIO has been a game-changer - swear by that piece of equipment.
     
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  7. Feb 16, 2020 at 8:57 PM #27

    kuziwk

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    I've heard of flex tanks, can you get them in 23L? I like the idea of having more control with the oak flavor and being able to see the level through a flex tank to know when to top up.
     
  8. Feb 16, 2020 at 10:42 PM #28

    kuziwk

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    Yes I also bulk age without clearing agents for 10-12 months on the big reds. So you're saying I should skip degassing at all and just rack every 3 months or so? I just like to get rid of the gas so the bulk of the sediment drops out quicker.
     
  9. Feb 17, 2020 at 1:08 AM #29

    Johnd

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    Google is your friend : https://flextank.com/products-tanks.php
     
  10. Feb 17, 2020 at 2:30 AM #30

    CDrew

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    Smallest flextank is 15 gallons, and smallest practical Flex tank is 30 gallons. ( I say this because you have to get to the 30 gallon Flextank to use the bottom spout sanitary fittings). There are no 5 gallon flex tanks.

    You can get 5 gallon Intellitanks, but they don't really emphasize micro-oxidation. They are more like a HDPE carboy with good fittings. I use the 15 gallon Intellitanks and think they are great and a practical solution for the home wine maker.

    Assuming you age 12 months and rack a few times, "degassing" is not a step you need to worry about.

    The Allinone is a nice unit and really helps with racking chores even in carboys. But if that is too expensive, any vacuum pump can be made to work and do the same job. You'll just have to figure out the plumbing yourself. I have an allinone that I use and also have a hospital surplus suction pump that moves more air and thus racks things faster. But once you use vacuum to rack, you'll never do it any other way until you make big volumes and positive pressure pump it. It seems like a lot of cash at first, but after your first racking you'll realize it's worth.

    But if this is all for kit wines, meant to drink young, it probably doesn't matter if you micro-oxygenate or not. Bottle at a year and they will likely be plenty "degassed".
     
  11. Feb 17, 2020 at 2:10 PM #31

    Rice_Guy

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    The easiest to find 23 liter vessel is a LDPE jug as used for camping. It is rated at 8586 cc oxygen per square foot *day. For reference a Better Bottle is PET which should be 35.5 (depends on thickness) or an EVOH wine bag which is rated at 0.1 to1.9. (Bag in Box) I haven’t seen similar numbers on wood barrels.
    17651A24-FE18-419A-8406-DC536E0BA639.jpeg Note they flex so this test has a check valve. , , this is about 4 gallons squashed in the milk crate
     
  12. Feb 17, 2020 at 6:44 PM #32

    StreetGlide

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    Knowing what I know now, I am so sorry I did not buy an AIO sooner. Without question I’d never be without one again. It just makes this hobby so much easier that it’s worth every penny to me.
     

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