What is this fruit?

[Jericurl]

And more importantly...can I make wine from it?

I was foraging for mesquite beans today and came across a stand of these. There were probably roughly a dozen of these in 3 major stands. The tallest of the trees was probably around 25 feet or so.

So far it looks like a perfectly round green persimmon. But I'm not sure.

 

[Stressbaby]

It's a persimmon. Not sure if it is Texas Persimmon (Diospyros texana) or American Persimmon (D. virginiana). To me, the leaves look more like D. virginiana. You can make wine from them. So far, I can't.

 

[Julie]

It's a persimmon. Not sure if it is Texas Persimmon (Diospyros texana) or American Persimmon (D. virginiana). To me, the leaves look more like D. virginiana. You can make wine from them. So far, I can't.

Lol, you are overworking it. Make a 3 gallon batch use nothing but persimmons, peptic enzyme, nutrient and tannins and try Lavlin 1122. Ferment to 1.010 in a primary bucket, snap the lid down and let it ferment to dry. Rack to a carboy, add K-meta and let it sit for three months. Now rack and stabilize and backsweeten to the sweetness you like.

Don't put any other chemicals into it, I would let it sit for a year, racking every three months and adding k-meta.

 

[BernardSmith]

If it's persimmon then be careful because unripe persimmons seem to have some kind of enzyme that is really unpleasant when it comes into contact with your lips and tongue. I am sure it can act as a meat tenderizer because it would seem to break down muscle protein

 

[Jericurl]

I think we are leaning towards the Virginian Persimmon. Even the smallest trees in this stand were much larger than 8 ft, which was what most sources were sizing the Texas Persimmons at. (Ugh, I hate that sentence structure. I will fix it tomorrow when I'm not so tired)

We couldn't decide so I had Manthing cut it in half, then I stuck the tip of my tongue on it. Instant alum!! Yep, that's a persimmon.

 

[hounddawg]

that's an understatement, but very accurate one indeed. dog gone green simmons are the king of pucker, so bad your teeth go chalky, unfortunately I'm not as refined as yall and I love getting a tender foot take a bite, one taste I was 6 or 7 but I remember as if it was yesterday, sorry just a hillbilly flashback, i'm so ashamed of myself, UH RIGHT
Dawg

If it's persimmon then be careful because unripe persimmons seem to have some kind of enzyme that is really unpleasant when it comes into contact with your lips and tongue. I am sure it can act as a meat tenderizer because it would seem to break down muscle protein

 

[hounddawg]

them same as here in Arkansas wont be ripe till orange an soft, but you might take a bite just to be sure,, lol
Dawg

 

[Stressbaby]

I don't pick from the tree, I don't have a ladder high enough, all my persimmons are 20+ feet up. I just wait until they fall in the grass and pick them up off the ground.

Thanks @Julie for the suggestions. Are you suggesting straight fruit/no water? Not sure that is possible!

 

[dralarms]

I don't pick from the tree, I don't have a ladder high enough, all my persimmons are 20+ feet up. I just wait until they fall in the grass and pick them up off the ground.

Thanks @Julie for the suggestions. Are you suggesting straight fruit/no water? Not sure that is possible!

Freeze them, then cut in half as they thaw and use plenty of pectic enzyme. (The powder not the liquid). The pectic enzyme will break down the fruit very nicely.

 

[Stressbaby]

Maybe you all have different persimmons. By the time they thaw, there is no cutting them in half. They are mush, the consistency of baby food. As far as pectic goes, I generally triple the pectic. After doing that, they are the consistency of thin baby food.

I don't mean to dismiss any advice, I do appreciate it. I just don't see how you can make this wine without some water.

 

[BernardSmith]

Water is in the fruit. That's what makes the juice. You may not be able to express or press out a great deal of juice per unit of fruit but treat the juice that you express as if it were the juice of grapes. No one adds water to grapes do they, when they press grapes for wine? Adding water simply dilutes the flavor. If you can only express , say 1/2 gallon of juice then the problem may be that yoy don't have enough fruit - not that the fruit juice you do have wants to be diluted with water. Wine ain't beer.

 

[Stressbaby]

Serious question, who has made persimmon wine from American Persimmons?

I've made no less than a dozen batches, as I have a huge tree in my yard that produces 100-200 pounds per year. You can freeze/thaw the fruit, treat with 3t pectic enzyme (powder) per gallon, let it sit overnight, and you can still barely pour the stuff the next day. S.G readings are not possible. Even WITH water, you can barely get an S.G. reading. And it drops a crazy amount of sediment.

Here is the thread I started optimistically in 2012.

Persimmons make great cookies and bread though.

 

[Julie]

Stressbaby, instead of water use the white grape concentrate, I believe you did say you use it. And to be honest I have never made a persimmon wine and I don't mean to judge you, you have been making wines for a long time. When trying to take a hydrometer reading, have you ever put a strainer into the must and pull out the liquid that it pushes or is that not possible?

 

[Jericurl]

So do you guys think freezing then steam juicing the persimmons would be possible?
If it turns sludgey, I'm thinking I could probably use one of the paint strainer bags inside the basket on top of the colander part to keep in most of the pulp.

 

[hounddawg]

um I have, on property probably 200 to 300 trees of persimmon trees form 4 or 5 feet to a couple monsters, the wine it makes I found lacking to me, but the deer burger they bring an deer chili meat is priceless.
Dawg

Serious question, who has made persimmon wine from American Persimmons?

I've made no less than a dozen batches, as I have a huge tree in my yard that produces 100-200 pounds per year. You can freeze/thaw the fruit, treat with 3t pectic enzyme (powder) per gallon, let it sit overnight, and you can still barely pour the stuff the next day. S.G readings are not possible. Even WITH water, you can barely get an S.G. reading. And it drops a crazy amount of sediment.

Here is the thread I started optimistically in 2012.

Persimmons make great cookies and bread though.

 

[hounddawg]

ut-oh, where'd ya learn to say aint, I thought you was a learned man. tisk, tisk,,, guess I did land amongst the nuts, oh thank god, home at last,,,
Dawg::::

Water is in the fruit. That's what makes the juice. You may not be able to express or press out a great deal of juice per unit of fruit but treat the juice that you express as if it were the juice of grapes. No one adds water to grapes do they, when they press grapes for wine? Adding water simply dilutes the flavor. If you can only express , say 1/2 gallon of juice then the problem may be that yoy don't have enough fruit - not that the fruit juice you do have wants to be diluted with water. Wine ain't beer.

 

[Stressbaby]

So do you guys think freezing then steam juicing the persimmons would be possible?
If it turns sludgey, I'm thinking I could probably use one of the paint strainer bags inside the basket on top of the colander part to keep in most of the pulp.

I've tried that too.

 

[Stressbaby]

Stressbaby, instead of water use the white grape concentrate, I believe you did say you use it. And to be honest I have never made a persimmon wine and I don't mean to judge you, you have been making wines for a long time. When trying to take a hydrometer reading, have you ever put a strainer into the must and pull out the liquid that it pushes or is that not possible?

Hi Julie,

Thanks again. I have tried both grape and apple concentrate and in fact the Summer WotM uses grape.

A strainer doesn't really keep the pulp out...the pulp is so fine it goes right through the strainer.

I honestly think the Summer WotM persimmon wine may be my best so far. I went easy on the persimmon, add some bananas, didn't leave it on the pulp/seeds too long (<=3d). I also think fermentation temp has some effect on this wine - fermentation temp needs to be kept low.

I'm interested to see what Jericurl does with hers.

 

[Jericurl]

I'm interested to see what Jericurl does with hers.

Yeah, me too, lol.

Luckily I have time to do more research before I need to decide.

 

[hounddawg]

steaming usually sets the pectin making clearing next to imposable ,, i'm not real sure since they taught me to freeze I heat nothing and freeze all, in fermentation stages. as a mater of fact freezing has cut down on cutting up and handling, I use a bowl shaped screen with a handle to dip my pulp, put that into my screening bags to put in my fruit press for more juice,
Dawg

Yeah, me too, lol.

Luckily I have time to do more research before I need to decide.