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WineXpert WE sulfite/sorbate packet

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jgmann67

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It’s been a little while (about 8 months) since I made a kit wine. Since the “wine bank” had funds and the LHBS was running a sale that made their WE kits cheaper than what I could get online, I picked up three kits over the holidays: the Eclipse SLM and Limited run Three Moons Cab, and a Selection Luna Bianca.

It looks like the manufacturer - either as a cost saving effort or to keep people like me from throwing out the sorbate - now packages the sulfites and sorbate together in one sachet.

Given the choice, I threw the sachet away. I’ll just use my own kmeta. I have a spare sorbate sachets laying around if the Luna reaches off-dry after I add the rest of the fpac.

But - that’s kind of annoying.
 

Brian55

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It’s been a little while (about 8 months) since I made a kit wine. Since the “wine bank” had funds and the LHBS was running a sale that made their WE kits cheaper than what I could get online, I picked up three kits over the holidays: the Eclipse SLM and Limited run Three Moons Cab, and a Selection Luna Bianca.

It looks like the manufacturer - either as a cost saving effort or to keep people like me from throwing out the sorbate - now packages the sulfites and sorbate together in one sachet.

Given the choice, I threw the sachet away. I’ll just use my own kmeta. I have a spare sorbate sachets laying around if the Luna reaches off-dry after I add the rest of the fpac.

But - that’s kind of annoying.
Agreed. I wasn't looking for another reason to gravitate more towards RJS kits, but WE gave me another one with this idiotic idea.
 

cooknhogz

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Anymore if a company can save a penny it will. I’m sure it’s due to cutting some cost on packaging. I’ve done 4 WE kits in the last month and all were packaged together
 

jgmann67

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So, I got a reply. They said that they're always looking for ways to decrease their carbon footprint. They also said that failing to add both sulphite and sorbate voids their guarantee. But, if I chose to add just sulphite, I should add 1 level teaspoon.

I don't think I have ever added more than 1/4 teaspoon to a wine, and said as much to the CSR.
 

Johnd

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So, I got a reply. They said that they're always looking for ways to decrease their carbon footprint. They also said that failing to add both sulphite and sorbate voids their guarantee. But, if I chose to add just sulphite, I should add 1 level teaspoon.

I don't think I have ever added more than 1/4 teaspoon to a wine, and said as much to the CSR.
Just goes to show you why they do what they do.......their motives and outcome objectives aren’t in line with many of us who want to make the best wine possible, as opposed to the most foolproof, safest wine possible.
 

sour_grapes

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But, if I chose to add just sulphite, I should add 1 level teaspoon.

I don't think I have ever added more than 1/4 teaspoon to a wine, and said as much to the CSR.
I would be willing to bet a beer that the combined sulfite/sorbate sachet itself doesn't measure a level teaspoon! (But I could be wrong...)
 

cmason1957

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I would be willing to bet a beer that the combined sulfite/sorbate sachet itself doesn't measure a level teaspoon! (But I could be wrong...)
I would bet you are wrong, isn't a normal sorbate dosage for 6 gallons 2 teaspoons?? or maybe even 1 tablespoons, I think it depends on the product, LabelPeelers Potassium Sorbate says 1/2 tsp / gallon = 1 tablespoon, but if you use sorbistat K from morewinemaking it says .75 grams (for max dosage) and that makes 4.5 grams / 6 gallons and 1 tsp = 2.3 grams, so 2 tsp. Or maybe I am just confused, that is always a real possibility.
 

Brian55

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The Sulphite/Sorbate packet in the current WE kits is 9.5g. I sacrificed it to science, since I'm not going to use it. It's just shy of 1 tablespoon. Slightly overflowing 2 teaspoons.
 

Swedeman

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A metric teaspoon is 5 ml. WE kits contains 4 g sulphite, that is roughly 3,3 ml and 5,5 g sorbate which in turn is roughly 10 ml. So like Brian55 said, just shy of a metric tablespoon (15 ml). Still shy of US tablespoon, that's roughly 14,8 ml. When will you in the US start using the SI system as the rest of the world? ;-) (ignoring Burma and Liberia)

@sour_grapes Will you ship the beer to Sweden?

their motives and outcome objectives aren’t in line with many of us who want to make the best wine possible, as opposed to the most foolproof, safest wine possible.
It just shows the their majority of customers fall in the second group. I'm not surprised
 

jgmann67

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So am I under-dosing my wines??

When I rack and dose my wines, I hit it with 1/4 tsp. of KMeta.

Am I supposed to give my wine a heavier dosage coming out of the primary?
 

cmason1957

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So am I under-dosing my wines??

When I rack and dose my wines, I hit it with 1/4 tsp. of KMeta.

Am I supposed to give my wine a heavier dosage coming out of the primary?
I think not, assuming you are more later. There only real way to know is check the SO2 level right before you bottle based on the pH. Kits assume a one and done mentality.
 

pillswoj

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So am I under-dosing my wines??

When I rack and dose my wines, I hit it with 1/4 tsp. of KMeta.

Am I supposed to give my wine a heavier dosage coming out of the primary?
Keep in mind that is the only dose winexpert expects you to do and it happens on Day 14, following the instructions there is at least one more racking and 2 to 4 weeks aging after that add. Not that I have ever followed their instructions :db
 

Rocky

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So, I got a reply. They said that they're always looking for ways to decrease their carbon footprint. They also said that failing to add both sulphite and sorbate voids their guarantee. But, if I chose to add just sulphite, I should add 1 level teaspoon.

I don't think I have ever added more than 1/4 teaspoon to a wine, and said as much to the CSR.
Did they say exactly how this measure would "decrease their carbon footprint?"
 

Brian55

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Nope. And, obviously it has nothing to do with that.... it’s just cheaper because it uses less paper.
It's a sneaky way to get people to add the unnecessary sorbate. I'm betting this was a decision that stemmed from their legal dept. rather than a bean counter.
 

Swedeman

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it’s just cheaper because it uses less paper.
It's true that they need less paper, roughly 20% less compared to use two individual sachets. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that it will be cheaper, either you will have to have a production line where you can add two different materials into one sachet or you have to have an extra mixing step, where you have make sure that you have an homogeneous mixture of sulphite and sorbate. I guess it is pre-mixed and a an extra step cost money. But if the do it in a low cost country maybe that extra cost is less than paper...

It might be cheaper but not necessarily. And honestly, the cost of an extra sachet would be ridiculous low compared to the price of the kit itself. Then, why add an extra packet of yeast in some kits?

I'm inclined to agree with Brian55
 
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