Wanted To Post About My Mystery Grape!

Discussion in 'Grape Growing & Vineyard Forum' started by CK55, Jun 7, 2018.

Wine Making Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk by donating:

  1. Jun 7, 2018 #1

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I Figured I would post about the grapes that im getting Dna tested by UC Davis since nobody in the family remembers what they are, They have been on the property where I live for 40 years and came from cuttings from the original vine in Angels Camp,California which was planted sometime between 1870 and 1910. Im pretty excited to find out what they are, as I sent Mike at Carlisle winery a bunch of photos and he was stumped by it as well.

    Im open to everyone taking a guess and we will see what it comes back as, tell you what you can all do one guess each and whoever is right will get a free kit from me. I thought I would spice it up for you guys.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  2. Jun 7, 2018 #2

    Masbustelo

    Masbustelo

    Masbustelo

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Northern Illinois 5b
    Please post back later. How many inches of rain per year do you average? What is Angels Camp?
     
  3. Jun 7, 2018 #3

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    i have no idea what that has to do with it, the grapes are currently planted on my property in san luis obispo county, and i didnt ask what you thought about that, i wanted you to guess what varietal you think it is.
     
  4. Jun 7, 2018 #4

    Johnd

    Johnd

    Johnd

    Large Member WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,431
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    Location:
    S Louisiana
    What is your current shoe size, and what was the first vehicle you owned??
     
  5. Jun 7, 2018 #5

    salcoco

    salcoco

    salcoco

    Veteran Wine Maker WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,056
    Likes Received:
    717
    try mission grape? my guess is based on dates you mentioned. it would be the time the missionaries would have been in CA.
     
  6. Jun 7, 2018 #6

    Masbustelo

    Masbustelo

    Masbustelo

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Northern Illinois 5b
    I apologize for having expressed interest in the post and having solicited information that may be relevant to both the horticulture and historic origins of these plants. Perhaps this could be a variant of Grenache?
     
    balatonwine and sour_grapes like this.
  7. Jun 7, 2018 #7

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I mean it could be but it is growing in sand, my property is basically the only one in the area on top of a giant ancient sand dune. And according to research Grenache does not grow well in sand. So i think it wouldnt really fit.

    I don't think its mission as their arent any missions around where it was planted. And mike didn't as well.I was told that the family did have a preference for French wine grapes, the only grape we know for a fact they had planted was Alicante Bouschet. The others are as stated why this one is being tested. The family was Italian and was here as early as 1850, so what we have thought as a possible story is that cuttings were taken from vines planted in the 1850's and moved onto the new property which was built in the 1870's. So it could even be older I have no idea. DNA Testing might solve that mystery, but whatever it is survived the phylloxera epidemic in Europe and survived contracting it here. So it might be something that's quite uncommon even rare today.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  8. Jun 7, 2018 #8

    salcoco

    salcoco

    salcoco

    Veteran Wine Maker WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,056
    Likes Received:
    717
    I will try Zinfandel or Primitivo or even its original Hungarian name which I cannot spell at the moment.
     
    balatonwine likes this.
  9. Jun 7, 2018 #9

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, that i do know of, ive been reading up like a mad man on like 2000 different varieties of grapes since getting into wine making. I will have the results in 1-3 weeks. So keep posting guys :).
     
  10. Jun 8, 2018 #10

    treesaver

    treesaver

    treesaver

    wino

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    26
    Hate to say it, but looks like a concord to me! I know that isn't what you want to hear!
     
  11. Jun 8, 2018 #11

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    It cant be because we know for a fact that the only table grape planted by the family was a white grape. They hated Concord. A lot. My Grandmother told me years back that the grapes were still on the property in the 30's and that she remembers that they did have alicante bouschet and a white table grape along with all of the others, so we are keen to figure out the origin of this grape.

    When i say still on the property i meant the original one where the grapes were possibly cuttings from.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  12. Jun 9, 2018 #12

    bumblebeetuna

    bumblebeetuna

    bumblebeetuna

    Junior

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    13
    I vote for some kind of hybrid, like Foch
     
    Ajmassa5983 and CK55 like this.
  13. Jun 9, 2018 #13

    Zintrigue

    Zintrigue

    Zintrigue

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    92
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    California
    Angels Camp is right around the corner from me. Unfortunately, that doesn't help me identify because they grow all varieties there! (Calaveras county is like a mini Napa, for anyone looking for off the beaten path wine haven - check out Murphys!).

    I will say that the 49ers were big on the Zinfandel they brought with them to the area, hence the heavy selling of "old growth" zins around here. My fave. And I know for a fact that Zin grows like a weed in these hills, I was told by a local vineyard that you could pee on it and it would give you great grapes.

    But still, Cabs and Barberas and Tempranillos and Syrahs are big hitters here, too. /shrug

    I guess I'll throw my hand in the pot for a Syrah, but my second guess would be Zin. Can't wait to hear the results!
     
    CK55 likes this.
  14. Jun 9, 2018 #14

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    It grows like a bat out of hell, nobody took care of it or watered it or even pruned it for 2+ decades and it survived an extensive over 10-year drought. So whatever it is is highly tolerant of drought and disease as its completely disease free and is growing in pure sand. So Im eager to find out what the heck frows like a bat out of hell on sandy soil. This year i watered it and corrected a slight nutrient deficiency pointed out to me by Mike At Carlisle Winery and now its healthy and got a lot of clusters of grapes growing on it. I intend to make a small batch of wine out of all the grapes it makes me And see what 40+-year-old vines make. Since i was told that its considered an old vine at this point.
     
    Zintrigue likes this.
  15. Jun 10, 2018 #15

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    The Verecund Vigneron

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    597
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Badacsony wine region. Hungary
    Different grape varieties differ in their water needs. Some are more drought tolerant than others. So if you really wanted help in people trying to determine the variety, the more information you can provide about your local climate and geographical conditions (soil et al.), planting method (grafted (if growing in sand, probably not needed) or not , et al.) the better. If you just wanted to have a "contest" based on some photos, that is of course a different game. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  16. Jun 10, 2018 #16

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    The Verecund Vigneron

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    597
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Badacsony wine region. Hungary
    Well, to be frank, I don't consider the vines in the photos "growing well". But they also seem to have been neglected. Maybe you have some more up to date photos of better, current growth?
     
  17. Jun 10, 2018 #17

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    The Verecund Vigneron

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    597
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Badacsony wine region. Hungary
    Is this documented in writing? Or just oral/family history?
     
  18. Jun 10, 2018 #18

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    balatonwine

    The Verecund Vigneron

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    597
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Badacsony wine region. Hungary
    I would also lean toward Zinfandel at the moment without more info. But would not hang my hat on that guess (because it is just a guess -- would like more verified info on the claimed source of the cuttings). By the way, the origin of Zinfandel is now considered to be the Croatia grape "Crljenak Kaštelanski"

    But in the end, the DNA should solve it.
     
  19. Jun 10, 2018 #19

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I live in San Luis Obispo county look up the Arroyo Grande AVA that's where I am. My vines are in soil comprised of ancient sand dunes. These vines are original rootstock. No grafts and probably not phylloxera resistant just being in sand has protected them.
     
  20. Jun 10, 2018 #20

    CK55

    CK55

    CK55

    Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Pics are 1 month back, vines we're neglected for decades. So yeah they treat well considering neglect.
     

Share This Page