Wacky measurements for 1st time fresh peaches wine

[Khristyjeff]

This is my 1st go at country wines so thought I'd seek help here. Starting SG was 1.045 after extracting enough juice through a metal strainer. I took a tip from @cmason1957 and used FermCalc JS calculator to determine the amount of simple syrup I should add to get an SG of 1.085. It called for 3#'s (6 Cups) of sugar to half as much water. After adding and waiting several hours, I took another sample and got a new SG of only 1.055. That didn't sound right since at this rate I would need to add a bunch of more sugar to get to the 1.085 mark. Ideas?

I haven't pitched the yeast yet because I wanted to get my numbers right first, but I think I have to add the yeast today since it's been 2 nights now with juice/mush in a bucket. I did add K-Meta, yeast nutrient, and acid blend so far. I really appreciate any advice you experienced winemakers can give.

 

[sour_grapes]

A couple of random thoughts:

Did you make the simple syrup by heating the water? I.e., is there any chance the sugar was not dissolved?

I take it that this is a 3 gallon batch? Did I get that correct?

 

[hounddawg]

This is my 1st go at country wines so thought I'd seek help here. Starting SG was 1.045 after extracting enough juice through a metal strainer. I took a tip from @cmason1957 and used FermCalc JS calculator to determine the amount of simple syrup I should add to get an SG of 1.085. It called for 3#'s (6 Cups) of sugar to half as much water. After adding and waiting several hours, I took another sample and got a new SG of only 1.055. That didn't sound right since at this rate I would need to add a bunch of more sugar to get to the 1.085 mark. Ideas?

I haven't pitched the yeast yet because I wanted to get my numbers right first, but I think I have to add the yeast today since it's been 2 nights now with juice/mush in a bucket. I did add K-Meta, yeast nutrient, and acid blend so far. I really appreciate any advice you experienced winemakers can give.

what type fruit?
as well on all my wines i never use simple syrup, i use dry sugar and stir using a cordless or a drill. if drill be very careful.
Dawg
AH peaches, i see. duh,,,
is their vascular fluid, to much pulp could account for some erratic readings,
if me, and you have a stir that fits a drill/cordless, or take a plastic coat hanger cut on straight just before the bend on one end, then on other end cut past that bend, you might even have to cut some of the bend off, stir really well, take reading and if more is needed add a little dry sugar then stir more, making sure to add only a little sugar at a time.
Dawg

 

[Khristyjeff]

I take it that this is a 3 gallon batch? Did I get that correct?

Yes, 3 gallon, and I heated the sugar water until it was clear.

 

[Khristyjeff]

to much pulp could account for some erratic readings,

Thanks for responding Dawg. Here is a picture of an SG reading from this morning. I use a metal strainer to get rid of some of the solids. See what you think from this picture.

 

[cmason1957]

Sometimes theory and actuality differ. Who knows why. I would recalculate how much sugar to add, add half of that and seed what happens. Sorry there isn't a firm answer.

 

[Rice_Guy]

You are dealing with peach juice which means that pulp is not involved.
Comparison on peaches I have run; 1.050/ (store peaches) 1.042/ 1.056/ (home grown & ripened) 1.070 ,,,,, i ripen peaches a few days before juicing to get a higher gravity. Your starting material would have better flavor if it was softened two days. ,,,, However back sweetening should fix this when you bottle.

A key is lots of pectase before fermenting.

If I started at 1.045 (12.52%) and wanted 1.085 (25.64%) I would expect to need 500 grams of dry sugar per gallon of starting juice, and the volume would increase by 0.15 gallon.

You are adding sample syrup so you are also diluting when you add sugar so my numbers are going to be off by a few ounces per gallon starting volume. As Craig says play safe mix half in, check, mix half etc.

 

[Khristyjeff]

Thanks for your replies. I see how Pectic Enzyme will be my friend. I first dosed each gallon bag of sliced peaches before I froze them, then again when I crushed the peaches. When should I add more?

Also, I pitched the yeast this afternoon since it had been juice in a bucket for 2 nights. So, I figured I can add simple syrup later perhaps after some of the solids separate. Maybe I'll get better numbers then to work with. I'll follow your advice to add the sugar solution in smaller doses and check in between. Always something new to learn!

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I like @hounddawg have not made simple syrup for years. The math for gravity and volume increase is cleaner if I just add sugar and stir.

Pectase is a protein which is capable of catalyzing the reaction of hydrolyzing pectin molecules. There isn’t any legal limit on how much to use and when the substrate is gone it just sits there waiting in case some more shows up. , ,,, when? sooner is better since it’s efficiency decreases as alcohol is formed.

 

[Khristyjeff]

I like @hounddawg have not made simple syrup for years. The math for gravity and volume increase is cleaner if I just add sugar and stir.

Pectase is a protein which is capable of catalyzing the reaction of hydrolyzing pectin molecules. There isn’t any legal limit on how much to use and when the substrate is gone it just sits there waiting in case some more shows up. , ,,, when? sooner is better since it’s efficiency decreases as alcohol is formed.

OK. I'll add some today!

 

[Daboyleroy]

Pectase is a protein which is capable of catalyzing the reaction of hydrolyzing pectin molecules. There isn’t any legal limit on how much to use and when the substrate is gone it just sits there waiting in case some more shows up. , ,,, when? sooner is better since it’s efficiency decreases as alcohol is formed.
[/QUOTE]

pectase



The first principal component (PC1) separated the wine from the extracted wine with pectase from other samples based on the higher concentrations of medium-chain fatty acids (octanoic and n-hexadecanoic acid) and mediumchain ethyl esters (ethyl octanoate, ethyl palmitate, and ethyl octadecanoate).

The wine from nonextracted pulpy juice with pectase (B) showed favorable acceptability compared to the others.

Wine from the extracted juice with pectase (*); wine from the extracted juice without pectase (**); wine from nonextracted pulpy juice with pectase (***); wine from nonextracted pulpy juice without pectase (***).

(A) Wine from the extracted juice with pectase, (B) wine from the extracted juice without pectase, (C) wine from nonextracted pulpyjuice with pectase, and (D) wine from nonextracted pulpyjuice without pectase.



Click the like below .......worth the effort and read

Quality Comparison of Hawthorn Wines Fermented by Saccharomyces cerevisiae with and without Pulp Contact and Pectase Treatment

 

[Khristyjeff]

@Daboyleroy That was a good read. I'll keep the study in mind. Thanks for posting.

 

[Steve Wargo]

This might be food for thought.

How "Tree" ripen were your peaches? Most store-bought peaches are picked before they are fully ripened. I am not sure how much starch is locked in a peach that is not fully "tree" ripened. Starches can be converted to sugar using the proper enzymes. Alpha and Beta Amylase. Just a thought. Someone that has their own Peach trees might not have to worry about this issue.

Stone fruits such as apricots, nectarines, peaches, plums and cherries also contain little to no starch when fully ripen. These fruits generally don’t develop more sugar after they’ve been harvested, but they do get softer and juicier when left at room temperature. Sugar accounts for nearly 90 percent of the calories provided by a ripe peach, and more than 80 percent of the calories you get from cherries. Both fruits are starch-free, according to the USDA.

https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/list-nonstarchy-fruits-9794.html

 

[Khristyjeff]

This might be food for thought.

How "Tree" ripen were your peaches? Most store-bought peaches are picked before they are fully ripened. I am not sure how much starch is locked in a peach that is not fully "tree" ripened. Starches can be converted to sugar using the proper enzymes. Alpha and Beta Amylase. Just a thought. Someone that has their own Peach trees might not have to worry about this issue.

Stone fruits such as apricots, nectarines, peaches, plums and cherries also contain little to no starch when fully ripen. These fruits generally don’t develop more sugar after they’ve been harvested, but they do get softer and juicier when left at room temperature. Sugar accounts for nearly 90 percent of the calories provided by a ripe peach, and more than 80 percent of the calories you get from cherries. Both fruits are starch-free, according to the USDA.

https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/list-nonstarchy-fruits-9794.html

Interesting @Steve Wargo. These peaches came off the "Peach Truck" from Georgia and we let them ripen 3 days laid out on a table. They were pretty soft and quite juicy when we processed them for the freezer. Good flavor.

 

[Raptor99]

@Daboyleroy Thanks for sharing the link. My organic chemistry isn't very good, but the conclusion seems to be that you get more fruit flavor and aroma by (1) fermenting on the fruit pulp, and (2) adding pectase. Not surprising, but it is nice to see some laboratory tests to confirm this approach.

@Khristyjeff I like the idea of adding pectase before freezing the fruit as well as when starting the ferment. I think that I'm going to start doing that.

 

[Khristyjeff]

@Khristyjeff I like the idea of adding pectase before freezing the fruit as well as when starting the ferment. I think that I'm going to start doing that.

I believe it was @pillswoj and maybe @Scooter68 that gave me that idea to give the pectate a head start as the peaches take some time to freeze. I just added a triple dose of pectase today and punched down the cap. It was pretty dense and thick. Guess I wasn't expecting that.
Plan is to punch down twice daily.
I'll also try to get an SG reading again tonight to see if it makes more sense. It appears that there already may be fewer solids in the juice so that's a good thing.

 

[Raptor99]

I believe it was @pillswoj and maybe @Scooter68 that gave me that idea to give the pectate a head start as the peaches take some time to freeze. I just added a triple dose of pectase today and punched down the cap. It was pretty dense and thick. Guess I wasn't expecting that.
Plan is to punch down twice daily.
I'll also try to get an SG reading again tonight to see if it makes more sense. It appears that there already may be fewer solids in the juice so that's a good thing.

I use a refractometer, so it is even more difficult to get a good reading with lots of solids in the juice. I have sometimes used a coffee filter to filter out the solids so that I can get a better reading.

 

[hounddawg]

Thanks for responding Dawg. Here is a picture of an SG reading from this morning. I use a metal strainer to get rid of some of the solids. See what you think from this picture. View attachment 76646View attachment 76646

looks good. as stated by others, all fruits should be over ripe before freezing and pressing
Dawg

 

[Jovimaple]

Yes, 3 gallon, and I heated the sugar water until it was clear.

About how many peaches did it take to get 3 gallons of juice?

 

[Khristyjeff]

About how many peaches did it take to get 3 gallons of juice?

I used 90 peaches but should have used more. These were small to medium in size. I weighed some to see how many added up to a pound then went from there. With added sugar water, I'm just over 3 gallon so after racking off all the lees, I'll be well under 3.