Viognier...here we go again? What should I do different? Another shot at it in 2020?

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mainshipfred

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The only roses I’ve made were by pulling juice from a red ferment (versus picking early at lower brix, higher pH). I literally scoop the juice out ASAP as I’m crushing, not letting it stay on the skins. I’ll let the juice settle, rack, adjust brix and pH and ferment the clean juice. I won’t add back any red wine from the red ferment for color until the rose fermentation has been completed. Not sure if that is the “right” way, but it’s worked for me.
Thanks, I kept them on the skins for 8 hours and used the free run. The skins got returned for making the red version. It's called something but I forget what it is.
 

mainshipfred

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2 weeks from now the Viognier will have spent 3 months in the fairly neutral barrel and has a very slight hint of oak. It once had a wonderful nose and nice crisp taste that appears to be fading. There are no flaws I can detect so I'm hoping it's just the natural progression of the wine and these qualities will come back again. I think I'll keep with the plan and put it in glass in 2 weeks unless someone feels it should stay in the barrel longer. The winery I got the grapes from will not bottle until May.
 

Chuck E

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2 weeks from now the Viognier will have spent 3 months in the fairly neutral barrel and has a very slight hint of oak. It once had a wonderful nose and nice crisp taste that appears to be fading. There are no flaws I can detect so I'm hoping it's just the natural progression of the wine and these qualities will come back again. I think I'll keep with the plan and put it in glass in 2 weeks unless someone feels it should stay in the barrel longer. The winery I got the grapes from will not bottle until May.
I did not oak mine. It went right to glass. I am pretty pleased with it so far. I think the oak should retreat a bit after it's in glass.
 

mainshipfred

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I did not oak mine. It went right to glass. I am pretty pleased with it so far. I think the oak should retreat a bit after it's in glass.
Yes it could be the oak although it is very slight. I still have high hopes for it. The Petite Manseng spent a month in the barrel and I do believe it will go back in. I have 10 gallons of it for a 25 liter barrel so I have some wiggle room with the time it spends.
 

NorCal

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@4score and I made Viognier in 2018 and we were going to do it again in 2019, but the vineyard de-committed the grapes days before we were suppose to get our bin, due to his poor yields. I reached out early to see if we can get Viognier this year, as it’s been a family favorite. We should know early next week, but it’s looking pretty good.
I will need to re-read this post and gather up my plans, if we get the green light.
 

NorCal

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Viognier in 2020 is a go. The vineyard committed to three things.

- two full bins of grapes (~1,800 lbs)
- first quality commercial grapes
- he promises not to decommit

@4score and I will split the grapes, I will need to find some willing winemakers to take a portion of my take on the juice. I will re-read all the posts and get my game plan together.
 

mainshipfred

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Viognier in 2020 is a go. The vineyard committed to three things.

- two full bins of grapes (~1,800 lbs)
- first quality commercial grapes
- he promises not to decommit

@4score and I will split the grapes, I will need to find some willing winemakers to take a portion of my take on the juice. I will re-read all the posts and get my game plan together.
I plan on Viognier being a yearly staple. Especially since I think the 19 Viognier is going to turn out well. I haven't tasted it since I bottled it and it was ever changing at bottling time. So I guess the East/West competition is going to have to be the 2020 vintage. I do plan on sending you a bottle or 2 of the 19 anyway when I feel it's ready.
 

CDrew

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Hate to even ask but ???????
Sorry I was vague. I was thinking ahead, that if I bought some of NorCal's Viognier I don't have anyway to maintain a cooler temp during fermentation. Not sure if that's ideal as I've only made red wine to date at garage temperature. I want to make some white wine in 2020. And since NorCal lives within 30 minutes of me, and he will have excess grapes, it naturally got me thinking....

So I posted without enough forethought. Likely not the last time!
 
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mainshipfred

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Sorry I was vague. I was thinking ahead, that if I bought some of NorCal's Viognier I don't have anyway to maintain a cooler temp during fermentation. Not sure if that'sideal as I've only made red wine to date at garage temperature. I want to make some white wine in 2020. And since NorCal lives within 30 minutes of me, and he will have excess grapes, it naturally got me thinking....

So I posted without enough forethought. Likely not the last time!
Whew!!! Thought I could have just been a bone head. I made my first white a Sauv Blanc from grapes in 2018 but the grapes came in really bad and it didn't turn out so well. In 19 when we were supposed to have the East/West competition and I made the Viognier and Petite Manseng. Whites are kind of fun and you don't have to wait as long to drink them. Fortunately I do have the means to do a cool ferment. I don't remember but I think Norcal does it in his garage as well.
 

NorCal

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I plan on Viognier being a yearly staple. Especially since I think the 19 Viognier is going to turn out well. I haven't tasted it since I bottled it and it was ever changing at bottling time. So I guess the East/West competition is going to have to be the 2020 vintage. I do plan on sending you a bottle or 2 of the 19 anyway when I feel it's ready.
Yes, let’s do it! What were the particulars of your 2019 Vio?
 

Boatboy24

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I plan to trade with Fred (my '19 isn't bottled yet), as our Viognier was crushed and pressed together, but we then took our own paths. Would love to do a nationwide compare.
 

mainshipfred

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Would you guys share your brix,pH, ferm temps, yeast,oak?,cold stabilizin, etc?
Brix was 22.9 and not changed
I had 2 pH readings 2.09 is what the winery gave me at crush but prior adding the yeast I read 4.20 which was about a week after crush.
My target pH was 3.65 but somehow it ended up at 3.48. probably because it was my initial reading that was off.
Only used 2 yeasts BA11 and 58W3 although misprinted the labels and it says BA11 and Cotes de Blanc.
Fermented in the cooler at 55* for 2 weeks then let it finish out of the cooler for another week to prevent a stuck finish.
Both yeasts finished at .990.
Added Lysozyme to prevent MLF.
Aged 4 weeks in a new, mostly neutral barrel. Even though it was neutral it did pick up some color from the toast.
Filtered with 1 micron pads.
Bottled about 3 weeks ago.
I only had 6 gallons for a 25 liter barrel so it contains small portions of peach, Sauv Blanc, Chenin Blanc and Petite Manseng to make up the difference.
 

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Boatboy24

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Would you guys share your brix,pH, ferm temps, yeast,oak?,cold stabilizin, etc?
I had 4.01 pH at pitching - targeted 3.7 with Tartaric adjustments, but didn't get there. Last adjustment (a few weeks back) brought me to 3.64. Haven't decided if I'll try to adjust further.
Brix was the same as Freds - 22.9. I didn't adjust.
Split the batch for fermentation and used BA11 and QA23.
Fermentation was done at ambient temps - mid 60's in my basement.
Combined split batches back for secondary and it finished at 0.992.
No Oak
Added Lysozyme after fermentation to inhibit MLF
I back sweetened slightly. Need to re-measure, but I think it was brought to just under 1.000.
 

mainshipfred

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You guys are just like @4score and I. Two very different wines from the same grapes. Both sound excellent. Looking forward to this season.
This year I'm going to try to get grapes from at least 2 different vineyards. Not sure yet if I'll field blend them or ferment them separately. My thoughts are to try to make a reserve and maybe throw in a few other varietals in the blend. BTW, it appears @CDrew may want to be in the competition as well and I'll see if I can get one or two more from our area.
 

Paolo_pin

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IMO, a viognier should not be made sur lee. Lots of commercial viogniers taste too much like a Chardonnay to me. I prefer the clean and crisp taste instead of the buttery taste.

Oh, and zero oak.
Hello,
are you sure the buttery taste was not due to dyacetil formation? This happens during MLF and not just because you set your wine on the lees. Lees will help indeed in a further complete extraction of therpene volatile compounds. Take care.
 
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