Has anyone made a wine kit using two kits without additional water? I would like to try this with the Cru Okanagan Valley Meritage wine kit. I have read a thread that stated one should omit the sweetener and I will do that, but I just needed advice concerning the stronger solution for the primary and what I might expect for a finished product.
RJ Spagnols using 2 kits for one batch without additional water being added
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I am new to the wine making game. What is an OG ?
Bmd2k1
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OG = Original Gravity aka the starting Specific Gravity
Tell us more about the kit(s) you plan to use. How many liters of concentrate are they? I assume they are intended to make 23 liters each. Can you confirm if that is true?
Also, can you tell us why you wish to do this? What are your goals?
Also, can you tell us why you wish to do this? What are your goals?
I have two kits, both are 3.17 gallons of juice, one was shipped without the grape pack while the other one has it included. The information on the website said that you would get 5 gallons of wine as a finished product. I thought that by making the two at once I might have get a nice result. I was concerned about making the one without the addition of the grape pack as I don't know what to do to have it reach its full potential. In the past I have made port and the kits have not used additional water so I was just wondering if I could do the same with my current kits. I would rather utilize both kits at once than to end up with a weaker wine.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Port kits are, as you say designed to be fermented with no extra water addition, meaning they are balanced to produce a good final end product that way. The other kits are balanced to produce a correct starting SG and acidity levels with the water addition. I don't think this idea is going to produce great results, it might be drinkable, might ferment, but might not.
But then, I'm not in the camp that shorts the water for more body in wine kits, either. Tannin added either at the start or later help with that.
But then, I'm not in the camp that shorts the water for more body in wine kits, either. Tannin added either at the start or later help with that.
Thank you for your reply. I sort-of figured that might be an answer to my question and I will not combine the two. Now, do you have any thoughts on what I might add to the kit lacking the grape pack? Possibly raisins, as I have heard of using those and if so do you know what amount might work and should they be white or dark? Would it be best to soak them first and then add all of the juice and raisins to the primary? This would be my thought, but I don't know. What about an addition of fruit juice? I am just thinking out loud. Anyway, would it need to stay in the primary longer to get benefits of the raisins or not? As to the Tannin addition, how much should I add and should it be added to both kits when I start them? And if I want to add a little extra oak should it be at the start or after it is racked for aging? Which gives the best results? I thank you for your help.
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I think if it were me, I would buy (well actually I already several) a white or grey Rubbermaid trash can, mix the kits together, add the grape pak and ferment together. I'd probably still add about a tablespoon/kit of regular wine tannin to the primary and any and all of the oak chips/sawdust that came with the kits. To give the kit some backbone at the very start. Small Oak particles in primary doesn't add oak taste, but sacrificial tannins that provide mouth feel and texture to the wine. (At least that's my thinking). If you want oak for oak flavoring, that goes in during the aging process and usually for 6-8 weeks.
Raisins are not something I ever add to a wine kit (except an Amarone Style), but that's me. Others add them and claim they don't add a raisin taste to the final product. I won't ever know. Fruit Juice, maybe but what kind depends on the wine you are making. I know there is a whole thread about adding fruits to wine kits - tweaking Cheap Kits - Other - Tweeking Cheap Kits
Raisins are not something I ever add to a wine kit (except an Amarone Style), but that's me. Others add them and claim they don't add a raisin taste to the final product. I won't ever know. Fruit Juice, maybe but what kind depends on the wine you are making. I know there is a whole thread about adding fruits to wine kits - tweaking Cheap Kits - Other - Tweeking Cheap Kits
I have had good luck adding dried elderberries, 4 oz for 5 gallons, in my kit wines. they add tannin and some body.
OK,
I really like your idea of using both kits since that was what I was really wanting to do. As I understand it, you think I should follow the kits direction for adding all of the ingredient, add tannin and then add additional oak at the aging process. I already have a super large carboy that has never been used, so processing both kits at once should not be a problem. I will get it out today, buy some regular wine tannin and add it when the kits are started. What type of oak should I use? I think the kit contains both French oak chips and American oak chips for oak tea, so would it be better to add additional amount of one or the other? How much?
I really do thank you for all of your advice and I can't wait to start these kits, have them age and then have so much wine that the entire neighborhood can enjoy it with me. I think wine making is a hoot and some of the results are pretty darn good, not all of them, but then they have not had the proper amount of aging as I have just started all of them. Oh, in 3 years I shall have a grand time of enjoying the fruits of my labor.
Thank you again, I look forward to your reply and have a super day.
I really like your idea of using both kits since that was what I was really wanting to do. As I understand it, you think I should follow the kits direction for adding all of the ingredient, add tannin and then add additional oak at the aging process. I already have a super large carboy that has never been used, so processing both kits at once should not be a problem. I will get it out today, buy some regular wine tannin and add it when the kits are started. What type of oak should I use? I think the kit contains both French oak chips and American oak chips for oak tea, so would it be better to add additional amount of one or the other? How much?
I really do thank you for all of your advice and I can't wait to start these kits, have them age and then have so much wine that the entire neighborhood can enjoy it with me. I think wine making is a hoot and some of the results are pretty darn good, not all of them, but then they have not had the proper amount of aging as I have just started all of them. Oh, in 3 years I shall have a grand time of enjoying the fruits of my labor.
Thank you again, I look forward to your reply and have a super day.
Thank you for your advice. Have a nice day.
Yes, I agree with Craig's advice. It wasn't combining the kits that seemed wrong, it was omitting the water.
Do make sure that you have vessels that appropriate for fermenting the kits (best to be a large bucket or small trash can) and for aging it later (an appropriate carboy or carboys).
Do make sure that you have vessels that appropriate for fermenting the kits (best to be a large bucket or small trash can) and for aging it later (an appropriate carboy or carboys).
I, in my youth, purchased a 60L carboy online called a Speidel. As of this date, I am now years older, and it has not been used. I shall dust it off and use it. Such fun to finally have it fulfill its destiny.
I thank you and Craig for you advice and taking the time to reply to my concerns. This is the first forum I have ever joined and I will return when the wine is ready to drink and let everyone know how it turned out.
Thanks again!
Have a great day and enjoy all that comes your way.
Lynn
I thank you and Craig for you advice and taking the time to reply to my concerns. This is the first forum I have ever joined and I will return when the wine is ready to drink and let everyone know how it turned out.
Thanks again!
Have a great day and enjoy all that comes your way.
Lynn
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Lynn,
You are very welcome, the vast majority of us on here try our best to be helpful, without squashing folks independent ideas. We all like to try different things, sometimes. I bet you come back with more questions before you get to the end, at least I hope you do. We love to know how things keep going.
You asked about oak. I will say it is a personal taste thing. I am a big fan of French Oak for many wines, I feel it doesn't just give oak, but so much more and the oak it does impart is very light. American oak can sometimes overpower wines and really increase the time they need to age. Hungarian is somewhere in the middle. Others will feel differently about them all. What I generally do is add what came with the kit, leave it in for longer than the kit manufacturer suggests, like 6-8 weeks and then decide where to go from there. If I decide (along with my co-taster wife) that more oak is needed, I like WineStix for adding oak - Tannins & Oak Barrel Alternatives | MoreWine
and also oak spirals - Oak Spirals | Label Peelers Beer and Wine Making Supply
You are very welcome, the vast majority of us on here try our best to be helpful, without squashing folks independent ideas. We all like to try different things, sometimes. I bet you come back with more questions before you get to the end, at least I hope you do. We love to know how things keep going.
You asked about oak. I will say it is a personal taste thing. I am a big fan of French Oak for many wines, I feel it doesn't just give oak, but so much more and the oak it does impart is very light. American oak can sometimes overpower wines and really increase the time they need to age. Hungarian is somewhere in the middle. Others will feel differently about them all. What I generally do is add what came with the kit, leave it in for longer than the kit manufacturer suggests, like 6-8 weeks and then decide where to go from there. If I decide (along with my co-taster wife) that more oak is needed, I like WineStix for adding oak - Tannins & Oak Barrel Alternatives | MoreWine
and also oak spirals - Oak Spirals | Label Peelers Beer and Wine Making Supply
Craig,
You are probably correct when you stated that I will have more questions. I am just having so much fun with all of this and I just don't want to make any mistakes. I usually follow the instruction to the letter, but often I wish that I would have added a little something to make it more to my taste. I think I will start adding a little more of the oak chips at the start of the fermentation and then taste it after it is racked and if needed then add the extra oak cubes or spirals. I currently have in my possession Oak plus French oak chips, 1# Hungarian Oak cubes and Bordeaux oak blend cubes, and two American white oak medium spirals. All of this was left over from when I started trying to make wine kits years and years ago, but I assume they are still good. I will try the French oak chips with the kits when I start them later today. About a 1/2 of cup? I never knew you could leave the kit on the oak longer than suggested without damage to the kit. I will do that in the future and also add some additional oak when I age it. I will go with the Hungarian Oak Cubes, since that is what I have. I do thank you for your advice and I will keep in touch with you as my kits progress. I really want to thank you and the other individuals who have responded for not making me feel stupid. Take care, you have fun and enjoy .
Lynn
You are probably correct when you stated that I will have more questions. I am just having so much fun with all of this and I just don't want to make any mistakes. I usually follow the instruction to the letter, but often I wish that I would have added a little something to make it more to my taste. I think I will start adding a little more of the oak chips at the start of the fermentation and then taste it after it is racked and if needed then add the extra oak cubes or spirals. I currently have in my possession Oak plus French oak chips, 1# Hungarian Oak cubes and Bordeaux oak blend cubes, and two American white oak medium spirals. All of this was left over from when I started trying to make wine kits years and years ago, but I assume they are still good. I will try the French oak chips with the kits when I start them later today. About a 1/2 of cup? I never knew you could leave the kit on the oak longer than suggested without damage to the kit. I will do that in the future and also add some additional oak when I age it. I will go with the Hungarian Oak Cubes, since that is what I have. I do thank you for your advice and I will keep in touch with you as my kits progress. I really want to thank you and the other individuals who have responded for not making me feel stupid. Take care, you have fun and enjoy .
Lynn
Steve Wargo
Enthusiast DIYer
I've added blueberries to the wine must. For a test. Try adding 5-7 fresh blueberries to a glass of red wine. Then let it sit for an hour. See what you think. I think it adds tannin and additional body. 1 lb of dark Raisins (no oil added) works as a substitute. Other suggestions include pitted organic dates about 20 or so of them rough diced. I haven't tried adding elderberry, but I bet a handful or the juice will go a long way in the must So, I'd add Berries (Blueberries, blackberries, cherries, cranberries, elderberries etc.). Also, think about aging the wine on some American or French oak after fermentation.
If you do add berries or fruit, putting them in a sanitized mesh bag is a little easier to clean up. You may want to use fishing line (again, sanitized) to attach the bag to your fermenter so it's easier to pull it out.
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