Other Tweeking Cheap Kits
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RedRockGirl
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yes!
I can't wait to see what you did Joe. I ended up starting 2 other wines, waiting to see what you came up with. I'm still a noob, so walk me through what you change. Thanks!
just finished the shiraz will post next week....buy 12ozs. of fresh blueberries. That's the taste partner...
I can't wait to see what you did Joe. I ended up starting 2 other wines, waiting to see what you came up with. I'm still a noob, so walk me through what you change. Thanks!
mattyc
Member
Too fun...
Greetings everyone! I've been poking around this forum for a while and finally need to jump in...
Last summer, with three years on my oldest vines (Marquette - I"m in MN) and finally anticipating some grapes to play with in the fall I needed to learn something about making wine and I tried my first kit - which was a Fontana Cabernet Sauvignon off of Amazon!
Once I got going, I couldn't stop and proceeded to make a few others last summer:
- Wine Expert World Vineyard Pinot Noir. It's ok & I'm hoping it gets better.
- Strawberry with fresh fruit - Needed to backsweeten 3.5% to make it work. It's fair.
- Rhubarb with fresh fruit - Amazing.
- Cru Select Sauvignon Blanc - Fantastic.
- Cellar Classic Winery Series Amarone - Bulk aging now - WOW.
...and finally, after learning a LOT, my first batch (only 1.5 Gal) of Marquette. In years to come, I'm expecting to be making ~30 gallons, but it was super fun to make this from my own grapes.
Anyhow, that very first Fontana is on the edge of being drinkable (maybe a slight exaggeration, but it's not good). I made it per instructions except for adding some sugar. It's so thin. And I dialed up the sugar/alcohol at the start, so maybe it would've balanced a little bit better if it was at 11%, but I believe it's around 13%.
So, Joe, your thread caught my eye and looks like a blast. I love the idea of taking a $40 kit and making something really good with it. I have a Fontana Malbec in the back of a UPS truck somewhere headed my direction and I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for bringing up this topic!
Greetings everyone! I've been poking around this forum for a while and finally need to jump in...
Last summer, with three years on my oldest vines (Marquette - I"m in MN) and finally anticipating some grapes to play with in the fall I needed to learn something about making wine and I tried my first kit - which was a Fontana Cabernet Sauvignon off of Amazon!
Once I got going, I couldn't stop and proceeded to make a few others last summer:
- Wine Expert World Vineyard Pinot Noir. It's ok & I'm hoping it gets better.
- Strawberry with fresh fruit - Needed to backsweeten 3.5% to make it work. It's fair.
- Rhubarb with fresh fruit - Amazing.
- Cru Select Sauvignon Blanc - Fantastic.
- Cellar Classic Winery Series Amarone - Bulk aging now - WOW.
...and finally, after learning a LOT, my first batch (only 1.5 Gal) of Marquette. In years to come, I'm expecting to be making ~30 gallons, but it was super fun to make this from my own grapes.
Anyhow, that very first Fontana is on the edge of being drinkable (maybe a slight exaggeration, but it's not good). I made it per instructions except for adding some sugar. It's so thin. And I dialed up the sugar/alcohol at the start, so maybe it would've balanced a little bit better if it was at 11%, but I believe it's around 13%.
So, Joe, your thread caught my eye and looks like a blast. I love the idea of taking a $40 kit and making something really good with it. I have a Fontana Malbec in the back of a UPS truck somewhere headed my direction and I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for bringing up this topic!
and (imop) a step above the cheaper kits. But most definitely add a little something for taste. 
Jo, nope, it is a 6 gal. Sangiovese kit, that is why I was curious if I could improve the final product by reducing the yield to 5 gal. and incorporating some of your amendments. If so, what would you recommend, it comes with Oak (dust).
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
joeswine
joeswine
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Sangiovese, excellent add 2 cups raisins to the primary, along with 2cups chips capitalize ,add enough simply syrup to bring up the SG to 1.13 or 4 use the ec1118 as your yeast let it work if you have a belly band heater use it this will smooth out the finish through boiloff in the secondary sdd 2 tablespoons of tanninsany t kind, let the process work.
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mattyc
Member
sugar levels
I started that Fontana Premium Malbec this morning... 5 gal batch, 5 oz American oak (1/2 med, 1/2 heavy), 1 Tbsp tannin, 10 oz Zante currnant.
A few questions/comments about sugar adjustment (chaptilization)...
Most Malbecs are in the 13.5-15% range, so I thought I'd try to target 14%... That means I want a starting SG of about 1.10. If SG ends up at .994, that would be (1.100-.994)*133 = 14.1%.
Because these kits are generally "weak" you see in their instructions that with a full 6 gallon batch they're targeting 1.07-1.08 starting SG, which is about 10.7% ABV. I'm assuming they're trying to keep the wine balanced - even if it's weak.
But when I added my water to get to 5 gallons, I was at 1.102, just a smidge over my target of 1.100. Perfect, and no need to add any sugar.
One comment on the rasin/currant addition... They are going to add sugar as well - and in the case of 10 oz of zante currants they add 196 grams of sugar. Assuming this gets used up by the end of primary, in 5 gallons this would add about 0.5% abv. But when measuring initial SG, you're not going to see the impact of that sugar becuase it's still wrapped up in the little sugar bombs and hasn't had time for osmosis to pull the sugar out. So with the currants adding their sugar, I believe my ABV is probalby going to be about 14.5%
Joe - You're adding sugar to get up to 1.110 and then adding rasins/currants - assuming you take this to dry, this means you're at 15.5% + .5% from the currants - 16%!!! You've been doing this a lot longer than me... am I missing something here or do you just prefer these wines in the 15-16% range (EC-1118 can get you there). What's your thought process on this?
I started that Fontana Premium Malbec this morning... 5 gal batch, 5 oz American oak (1/2 med, 1/2 heavy), 1 Tbsp tannin, 10 oz Zante currnant.
A few questions/comments about sugar adjustment (chaptilization)...
Most Malbecs are in the 13.5-15% range, so I thought I'd try to target 14%... That means I want a starting SG of about 1.10. If SG ends up at .994, that would be (1.100-.994)*133 = 14.1%.
Because these kits are generally "weak" you see in their instructions that with a full 6 gallon batch they're targeting 1.07-1.08 starting SG, which is about 10.7% ABV. I'm assuming they're trying to keep the wine balanced - even if it's weak.
But when I added my water to get to 5 gallons, I was at 1.102, just a smidge over my target of 1.100. Perfect, and no need to add any sugar.
One comment on the rasin/currant addition... They are going to add sugar as well - and in the case of 10 oz of zante currants they add 196 grams of sugar. Assuming this gets used up by the end of primary, in 5 gallons this would add about 0.5% abv. But when measuring initial SG, you're not going to see the impact of that sugar becuase it's still wrapped up in the little sugar bombs and hasn't had time for osmosis to pull the sugar out. So with the currants adding their sugar, I believe my ABV is probalby going to be about 14.5%
Joe - You're adding sugar to get up to 1.110 and then adding rasins/currants - assuming you take this to dry, this means you're at 15.5% + .5% from the currants - 16%!!! You've been doing this a lot longer than me... am I missing something here or do you just prefer these wines in the 15-16% range (EC-1118 can get you there). What's your thought process on this?
mattyc
Member
Similar question here... if you could get that to dryness, that would be 19.5% ABV, but it's probably going to stall out. I don't know anything about Sangiovese; are you trying to get a sweet wine? If you want a sweet wine, isn't it better to run it dry and then backsweeten - gives you more control?
joeswine
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Some say there to hot,what I look for is balance. Not just good structure but body also,by decreasing the base,I increased the body of the wine,, what the raisins or currents do is Leach out there flavor as well as ADD to the structure anb only a small amount to the ABV. You notice onc3 you decrease the volume all the stats came up and it should, you the wine chef create your sauce the way you want it to finish out.what do you think?
I have read this thread long enough and finally decided to take some action. Here is my experiment. I bought 2 kits of Luna Rossa, one is my control batch, the other I have tweaked. I started both of them a week ago and in the tweaked batch I added 1 c. of zante currants. Today I racked to secondary and in the tweaked kit I added 12 oz of blackberries and 12 oz of raspberries.
I am going to rack at same times and age for same amount of time. I will be able to actually taste the finished product side by side and really understand what the changes I made do to the kit. I am also thinking that it will be interesting to continue to taste side by side as they age.
I bought oak spirals and tannins as well but am not sure if I am going to use them yet. I think the next time I rack I will try a sample of each and then determine if I want to add any other variables to the tweaked batch. I am looking forward to this quite a bit. Thanks so much for all of the info and effort you put in on how to do these modifications. It has been extremely educational as well as inspiring!
I am going to rack at same times and age for same amount of time. I will be able to actually taste the finished product side by side and really understand what the changes I made do to the kit. I am also thinking that it will be interesting to continue to taste side by side as they age.
I bought oak spirals and tannins as well but am not sure if I am going to use them yet. I think the next time I rack I will try a sample of each and then determine if I want to add any other variables to the tweaked batch. I am looking forward to this quite a bit. Thanks so much for all of the info and effort you put in on how to do these modifications. It has been extremely educational as well as inspiring!
I like your idea. Please keep us posted! The Good, The Bad, The Ugly...we want to hear it all.
BTW...I racked my Fontana Malbec yesterday for the first time...and I have to say, it tasted and smelled wonderful.....I have high hopes for it!
joeswine
joeswine
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Both of you stay the course the melbec is a good base to work off of, never made a Luna rossa basically a red base currents sound good for the taste profile, berries in the secondary they should contribute to the background flavor, and always think outside the box..things to remember, when boosting the ABV always take an opening reading and a final so that you control the process at all times, GOT IT!
You can increase the ABV but you can't take it out. Use. Your hydrometer its yours best friend .
You can increase the ABV but you can't take it out. Use. Your hydrometer its yours best friend .
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