MangoMead
Member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2013
- Messages
- 62
- Reaction score
- 4
Hi folks,
Writing this in the midst of a typical Thailand tropical downpour, power dropping in and out. Hooray for the UPS! It is a nice cool 26c(78f) outside, dumping rain with thunder in the distance. It's down from a high of around 33c(92f) this afternoon not too hot at all today.
Pretty typical day here. It is hotter often, with less rain, but almost never much cooler than it is now. See here for details if you are curious.
Quick backstory: Brewing novice. Currently living in Thailand where brewing supplies are very thin on the ground. Looking to make Skeeter Pee inspired citrus/tropical fast finishing, icy cold drinking hot weather wine that may never see six months in the bottle before being consumed. You can find my other posts for more details, but I wanted to do a separate thread on very high ambient temperature issues for the benefit of those who may come later looking for similar answers.
With that said, my question/s is/are about brewing in high temps. I have been boning up on the issue but I want to run my thoughts past this awesome community before I go too far down the road.
Now it is theoretically possible to build an air conditioned space or use a modified refrigerator of a chest freezer, and I know some folks have done exactly that, but that is not a solution for me. I'm looking for minimal building costs and electrical usage and maximum DIY quotient with a final goal of making making something delicious and, most importantly, safe.
From what I can see there are two prongs to the attack on the heat problem; First is yeast selection, second is making a dark space where I can have some control over the temperature.
Yeast selection: From what I have read it seems that worst case would be to use a yeast way above the rated temp. At best I'll get nasty flavor, at worst no fermentation and maybe something dangerously infected with whatever moves in to the unoccupied space. Better would be a beer brewing yeast that can handle the temps. Best would be a wine making yeast that can handle the temps.
Right now I have 2 frontrunners I am looking into acquiring. Odds are that either one will have to get here in a visiting friends suitcase. First choice is the K1-V116 wine yeast in a dry pack. Dry pack means easy storage and longer shelf life, I can buy a box and be set for a good while. It is rated up to 35c(95f) and is said to be a good performer in unusual or adverse brewing conditions. Good for fruit wines. Sounds perfect actually.
Second choice is the 3724 Belgian Saison, it's a beer yeast and it comes in a vial starter but it also is rated to 35c(95f). More expensive per dose, shorter shelf life. More room per dose in the suitcase. Not optimal but not terrible, I don't think.
If I can get my preferred yeast, and I'm sure one way or the other I will be able to, that side is covered. I think. That's where you guys come in. Am I missing something on the yeast side? Is there a factor I'm not considering? Please let me know if you see a hole in this plan.
The second prong of attack is what I call the Corner Winery (CW). I'm taking some concepts from the "Sons of Fermentation" plans and expanding on them to essentially build a small cold closet in the corner of my apartment.
Basically it will be 3 sides of a box that will snug up to the corner the big room in my new apartment. Not there yet, moving in next month, big part of why I'm moving there is for the better kitchen that will let me do projects like this and my other big project, a meat smoker.
Somethings to know; Buildings in Thailand do not have carpeting. Ceramic tile floor on top of concrete is the norm everywhere you go. The building is made of prestressed concrete posts and joists with walls filled in with concrete bricks and concrete 'plastering'. Big plus is you almost never can hear your neighbors through the wall. This corner is also on the ground floor with the other sides of the walls all interior spaces, so the floors and walls have a lot of thermal mass and will stay a relatively stable cool temperature.
The CW will be built of large blocks of stiff insulation foam about 4 inches thick that will be epoxied together and reinforced with some wood strips. Soft foam glued along the edges that touch the walls and floor will help make a seal. I'll put a couple of vents up high to let fresh air in but not let too much cool air out. I don't think I'll need fans on the vents.
Inside the CW will be shelving units for whatever I am currently brewing and a combo swamp cooler, fermenter chiller system I am designing.
I was thinking of going with the ice bottles that the SOF cooler uses but I think that if I have the yeast I want I should be able to keep things in the 25c-30c range with just the swamp cooler and be perfectly fine. I may still need some ice bottles at peak heat times, more on that later.
Swamp cooler is pretty basic, just a holding tub of cool water, an aquarium pump, a copper tubing coil draped with some cloth and a fan. Pump sends water through the copper coil that is set over the holding tub. As the water comes out, most just goes back into the tub but a small amount is diverted onto the cloth to keep it wet at all times. Fan blows on the wet cloth draped coil for evaporative cooling that constantly chills the water as it is circulated through the coil while also circulating cooled air inside the insulated CW space.
From my research it seems the biggest heat issue is going to be getting rid of the heat generated by the intense fermentation that happens right at the beginning of the ferment after casting yeast into the must. That is where the second part of the swamp cooler comes in.
The second part is simply a coil of stainless steel tubing that is set inside, or installed into, the primary fermentation vessel and then connected by a tube to a second aquarium pump circulating water through the coil from the single, already chilled, holding tub. I could get fancy and use electrical controls on the pump but I'm more likely to just control it by flow rate. Slowing down the flow if the fermenter is somehow getting too cold and adding ice bottles to the holding tub if it is getting too high during that peak heat generating period.
One thing I will probably invest in is a digital thermometer with some remote probes so I can watch temps from outside the CW and not have to open it up and lose my block of cold air every time I want to see the fermenter temp.
I'll also do my best to not open the CW in the heat of the day. I'll schedule all my brewing duties for after dark when the temps are down anyway.
That is the plan so far. Please poke holes, poke fun, tell me what I'm doing wrong. Seriously, please.
Writing this in the midst of a typical Thailand tropical downpour, power dropping in and out. Hooray for the UPS! It is a nice cool 26c(78f) outside, dumping rain with thunder in the distance. It's down from a high of around 33c(92f) this afternoon not too hot at all today.
Pretty typical day here. It is hotter often, with less rain, but almost never much cooler than it is now. See here for details if you are curious.
Quick backstory: Brewing novice. Currently living in Thailand where brewing supplies are very thin on the ground. Looking to make Skeeter Pee inspired citrus/tropical fast finishing, icy cold drinking hot weather wine that may never see six months in the bottle before being consumed. You can find my other posts for more details, but I wanted to do a separate thread on very high ambient temperature issues for the benefit of those who may come later looking for similar answers.
With that said, my question/s is/are about brewing in high temps. I have been boning up on the issue but I want to run my thoughts past this awesome community before I go too far down the road.
Now it is theoretically possible to build an air conditioned space or use a modified refrigerator of a chest freezer, and I know some folks have done exactly that, but that is not a solution for me. I'm looking for minimal building costs and electrical usage and maximum DIY quotient with a final goal of making making something delicious and, most importantly, safe.
From what I can see there are two prongs to the attack on the heat problem; First is yeast selection, second is making a dark space where I can have some control over the temperature.
Yeast selection: From what I have read it seems that worst case would be to use a yeast way above the rated temp. At best I'll get nasty flavor, at worst no fermentation and maybe something dangerously infected with whatever moves in to the unoccupied space. Better would be a beer brewing yeast that can handle the temps. Best would be a wine making yeast that can handle the temps.
Right now I have 2 frontrunners I am looking into acquiring. Odds are that either one will have to get here in a visiting friends suitcase. First choice is the K1-V116 wine yeast in a dry pack. Dry pack means easy storage and longer shelf life, I can buy a box and be set for a good while. It is rated up to 35c(95f) and is said to be a good performer in unusual or adverse brewing conditions. Good for fruit wines. Sounds perfect actually.
Second choice is the 3724 Belgian Saison, it's a beer yeast and it comes in a vial starter but it also is rated to 35c(95f). More expensive per dose, shorter shelf life. More room per dose in the suitcase. Not optimal but not terrible, I don't think.
If I can get my preferred yeast, and I'm sure one way or the other I will be able to, that side is covered. I think. That's where you guys come in. Am I missing something on the yeast side? Is there a factor I'm not considering? Please let me know if you see a hole in this plan.
The second prong of attack is what I call the Corner Winery (CW). I'm taking some concepts from the "Sons of Fermentation" plans and expanding on them to essentially build a small cold closet in the corner of my apartment.
Basically it will be 3 sides of a box that will snug up to the corner the big room in my new apartment. Not there yet, moving in next month, big part of why I'm moving there is for the better kitchen that will let me do projects like this and my other big project, a meat smoker.
Somethings to know; Buildings in Thailand do not have carpeting. Ceramic tile floor on top of concrete is the norm everywhere you go. The building is made of prestressed concrete posts and joists with walls filled in with concrete bricks and concrete 'plastering'. Big plus is you almost never can hear your neighbors through the wall. This corner is also on the ground floor with the other sides of the walls all interior spaces, so the floors and walls have a lot of thermal mass and will stay a relatively stable cool temperature.
The CW will be built of large blocks of stiff insulation foam about 4 inches thick that will be epoxied together and reinforced with some wood strips. Soft foam glued along the edges that touch the walls and floor will help make a seal. I'll put a couple of vents up high to let fresh air in but not let too much cool air out. I don't think I'll need fans on the vents.
Inside the CW will be shelving units for whatever I am currently brewing and a combo swamp cooler, fermenter chiller system I am designing.
I was thinking of going with the ice bottles that the SOF cooler uses but I think that if I have the yeast I want I should be able to keep things in the 25c-30c range with just the swamp cooler and be perfectly fine. I may still need some ice bottles at peak heat times, more on that later.
Swamp cooler is pretty basic, just a holding tub of cool water, an aquarium pump, a copper tubing coil draped with some cloth and a fan. Pump sends water through the copper coil that is set over the holding tub. As the water comes out, most just goes back into the tub but a small amount is diverted onto the cloth to keep it wet at all times. Fan blows on the wet cloth draped coil for evaporative cooling that constantly chills the water as it is circulated through the coil while also circulating cooled air inside the insulated CW space.
From my research it seems the biggest heat issue is going to be getting rid of the heat generated by the intense fermentation that happens right at the beginning of the ferment after casting yeast into the must. That is where the second part of the swamp cooler comes in.
The second part is simply a coil of stainless steel tubing that is set inside, or installed into, the primary fermentation vessel and then connected by a tube to a second aquarium pump circulating water through the coil from the single, already chilled, holding tub. I could get fancy and use electrical controls on the pump but I'm more likely to just control it by flow rate. Slowing down the flow if the fermenter is somehow getting too cold and adding ice bottles to the holding tub if it is getting too high during that peak heat generating period.
One thing I will probably invest in is a digital thermometer with some remote probes so I can watch temps from outside the CW and not have to open it up and lose my block of cold air every time I want to see the fermenter temp.
I'll also do my best to not open the CW in the heat of the day. I'll schedule all my brewing duties for after dark when the temps are down anyway.
That is the plan so far. Please poke holes, poke fun, tell me what I'm doing wrong. Seriously, please.
