Training Petit Manseng

Discussion in 'Grape Growing & Vineyard Forum' started by dwhill40, Jan 7, 2019.

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  1. Jan 7, 2019 #1

    dwhill40

    dwhill40

    dwhill40

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    Greetings,

    Anyone here growing Petit Manseng? I've yet to figure out what these vines are trying to accomplish as far as a growth pattern is concerned. I have own rooted and I've grafted on 110R root stock growing in two different blocks which seems to make no difference except in vigor. The shoots, as compared the average vinifera, seem to prefer to grow down or sideways or up. The distance between buds is short. After making my best effort at spacing shoots over a couple of years I still have some shoots tiny and some bolting. A very odd out of balance vine in my opinion. Should I try growing as an American grape and let it drape and prune as I would a concord or muscadine? Any help on this would be appreciated.
     
  2. Jan 11, 2019 #2

    TOMMARIANI22

    TOMMARIANI22

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    Where are you located
     
  3. Jan 12, 2019 #3

    dwhill40

    dwhill40

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    North Alabama. Please no advice on growing vinifera here. I have elevation on sandy soil and grow killer Cab. as well as many other vinifera varieties.
     
  4. Jan 14, 2019 at 12:31 AM #4

    TOMMARIANI22

    TOMMARIANI22

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    I was just curious to know you're weather pattern and if you have a good how long summer. We grow it on a lyre trellis system to help it stay vertical. It really doesn't have a preference,but if you do let it drape it is extremely prone to rot if it doesn't get the sun it needs.
     
  5. Jan 14, 2019 at 1:17 AM #5

    dwhill40

    dwhill40

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    Thanks for the reply. Probably not many manseng growers around. I'm growing it on a vsp trellis in full sun. My growing season is too long with most varieties ripening in August. The vegatation seems ample. It just seems to have a wonky growth habit. Could be the clone I have maybe? I dont use commercial fertilize so maybe it needs more nutrition than I'm giving it? The reds grow like kudzu in the sandy soil so I focus on keeping the micchorrizae happy and I apply a little composted cow manure for nitrogen every other year. I'm not against applying a little 13-13-13 to the PM see what happens.
     
  6. Jan 15, 2019 at 6:31 AM #6

    TOMMARIANI22

    TOMMARIANI22

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    We grow it for it's thick skins and loose clusters better for disease management. Do the shoots tend to be kind of short and long periodically? We had the same problem and then switched to a cane pruning method and it corrected almost everything. The variety tends to build cankers in old wood and blocks nutrient uptake to certain parts of the vineyard giving it a wonky look, but by renewing the cordons every year we were able to remove decaying or dead parts of the vine and bring it back into balance. We have really fertile soil as well so take the word balance with a grain of salt. Because when you get it just right these things can have a canopy big enough to make it like night.
     
  7. Jan 16, 2019 at 2:59 AM #7

    dwhill40

    dwhill40

    dwhill40

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    Ah yes, a most awesome solution indeed. That is it! The same staggered growth restriction sort of thing going on but yet an otherwise healthy plant. I even lost a two yr old grafted PM vine to some gallish looking condition. I have lost very few vines over my six year experiment. (I only have a little over 100 vines with 15 + varieties). I've taught myself almost every discipline in grape growing and winemaking except for cane pruning. A little google and youtube will solve that issue. :) Thank you. Where are you located?
     
  8. Jan 16, 2019 at 4:17 PM #8

    TOMMARIANI22

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    Absolutely. There is a product they make called vitiseal and it is a wound protectant. If you apply a mild fungicide like oxidate to clean the wound and then apply vitiseal immediately after you will never worry about cankers or dead arm. Cane pruning has been our best friend in renewal zones. We are on a 34 acre estate vineyard in Pennsylvania. You have it easy with 100 vines good for you. Little more work with cane pruning but it pays itself back.
     
  9. Jan 16, 2019 at 4:30 PM #9

    TOMMARIANI22

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    If you need a help with anything I can post some pictures and guide you a little bit.
     
  10. Jan 17, 2019 at 2:22 AM #10

    dwhill40

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    Very cool. Wow, that's a lot of vines to manage. My old Pappy has a cattle farm near Huntsville where I have acreage to play with. Might pull the trigger someday on a couple of acres of grapes/blackberries/elderberries to sell the fruit for vacation money in my retirement and keep me moving. I'm submitting my 2017 Cab in a few contests to maybe get a little recognition. Ive had a couple of professionals tell me it's good. We shall see.

    I have shaved off large galls, applied antiboitic ointment then wrapped with a strip of cotton cloth. It works for me. A farmer in north georgia with acreage told me he uses a steel brush and diesel fuel to treat gall. Guess it's cost effective.

    I've got about a dozen PM vines mature enough to convert over to cane pruning without to much setback. I'm looking forward to it. I need a white that works in the humidity. Reisling grows well and matures well but the least blemish on a grape and it's done. Chardonnay is a little better rot wise. Valvin Muscat may pass muster, the flavor is unreal but not really a vibrant vine.

    Do you guys grow Tannat? I have never seen a vine so happy as Tannat is in my environment. Even with me dropping fruit and letting it grow to 12 ft and VSP I probably get 40 lbs or more of grapes with shoots touching the ground if I let them and that is on 80 yr old washed out cow pasture with sandy acidic soil. I planted a row last year after seeing what my prototype vine would do. It blends perfect with Cab for a strong nasty red.

    Thanks again!
     
  11. Jan 18, 2019 at 2:29 PM #11

    TOMMARIANI22

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    Funny that you ask if we grow Tannat. We were into exploring new varietals... This year we had over 78 inches of rain. The only true grapes that we had stand up to it were loose cluster thick skinned varietals. Fortunately our cab franc and semillon did great with an intense IPM program. So if you're in the market for white vinefra varietals I would tell you semillon all the way... great blending partner with petit manseng as well and has very good resistance to disease. We are doing our own grafting this year and will be adding Tannat and more semillon to our acreage. We are hoping Tannat will love this area and really thrive for our conditions. Hopefully we are a bit drier next year... average is 35 inches per year. We've also been experimenting with early leaf removal to loosen clusters before Bloom and it has cut our disease pressure in half.
     
  12. Jan 19, 2019 at 6:49 AM #12

    dwhill40

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    Yeah, I spent last year remodeling a house every weekend, a new job and the wife had back surgery. Add in the Gulf of Mexico streaming overhead for the year and late with the bird netting and there was no 2018 vintage.

    I'll have to add a couple of semillon vines in with my cab franc order this year. Planning on a small row. I hear cab franc has a good record in humidity. Looser clusters is the trick. I have a kickin' Zin vine but the green clusters are like hand grenades.

    Leaf removal before bloom for looser clusters. That's a new one on me. I brutalize the vines with shoot and leaf thinning throughout the year. Do you pull leaves from around the blooms or the fruiting zone in general?
    I included a pic of the crazy tannat vine and my fine leaf pulling on a row of cab :)
     

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  13. Jan 19, 2019 at 7:09 AM #13

    dwhill40

    dwhill40

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    Btw, I've grafted a few vines and learned some varieties like some rootstocks better than others. The petit manseng grafted to 110R like a champ. Not a single tannat t-graft to 110R took. Tannat is different. The vine is more wooden and straight than other varieties. A guy that likes to breed grapes once told me something about the lineage of tannat being different. I've found novavine is decent at answering those sort of matching scion to rootstock questions.
     

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