Topping up the Carboy

Discussion in 'Kit Winemaking' started by kuziwk, Apr 5, 2018.

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  1. kuziwk

    kuziwk Member

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    Hi Guys this is a question that has always puzzled me. How high up the carboy do these need to be topped up? I was told that if you put in sulphites it does not need to be within 2" of the bung. Right now i need about 1/3 of a bottle top up one carboy i just dont want to open a bottle just for that.
     
  2. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Whoever said that is incorrect. Having headspace with sulphites will just delay the oxidizing- not prevent it. The o2 will eventually eat up all available free so2. Loading more and more is adding an unnecessary amount of total so2.
    The adverse can work—topped up without sulphites. But your air space will just allow you to see the eventual crud growing on the surface better.
    Go high enough for the wine’s surface area to be neck’s radius- not the shoulders or lower. Couple inches from bottom of rubber stopper
     
  3. Trevor7

    Trevor7 Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    You'll find that opening a bottle is a lot cheaper than losing a carboy to oxidation. I have seen comments that some have a box wine <Shudder> that they use for topping up. This way they aren't opening bottles and the remaining wine will keep for the next top-off. I go by the two finger rule - about 1.5 inches from the stopper and this has worked well for me. As for the left-over wine from the bottle? Yummm...!
     
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  4. Monty Knapp

    Monty Knapp Member

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    Sometimes I use glass pebbles. You can by them cheap at a dollar store. I buy the clear ones that have no iridescent coating. I wash them thoroughly - you'll be surprised how dirty they can be. And then I soak them in vinegar for about a week.
    Sanitize them when you are ready to use them, then drop them into the carboy to raise the level. Only problem is that any sediment ends up on top of them instead of on the bottom of the carboy.
     
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  5. vacuumpumpman

    vacuumpumpman Vendor

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  6. Monty Knapp

    Monty Knapp Member

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  7. malfrune

    malfrune Junior

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    No balloon inside the carboy it just sucks the air out. The bulb on there just stays deflated so you know you still have vacuum. A handheld brake bleeder pump works just fine for it, and despite owning a all-in-one pump I still keep a manual pump next to the carboy for the headspace eliminator only takes a few seconds to pump down whatever the CO2 displaced. It degasses like nothing else as well, you have to keep pumping it down for a few days but once the wine stops degassing there's no CO2 left.
     
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  8. Monty Knapp

    Monty Knapp Member

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    I see.
    I've been looking at a cheap ($75) vacuum pump - used to evacuate AC systems, but says it has other uses such as degassing wine, etc ..... Cheaper than the all-in-one pump.
    Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  9. meadmaker1

    meadmaker1 Member

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    Plenty.
    Add up the cost of building any accessories the aio comes with.
    Is the pump oil less, ( for ac work probably not).
    Oil pump needs some extra steps. They vaporize oil so deal with that first. Then there is an argument for oil flowing backwards through system to the wine, (not my argument but its there) a buffering jar and or loops in the vacuum hose.
     
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  10. Monty Knapp

    Monty Knapp Member

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    Most of the reviews on the pump complain about the oil mist. Doesn't sound like a good idea now, with you bringing up the same concern. Thanks.
     
  11. meadmaker1

    meadmaker1 Member

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    Its not hard to deal with oil, but you do need to....... $10
    Hoses. Stoppers, fittings ........ $20
    Racking can to butcher for parts $10
    Opps one size stopper wont work and screwed up the one that did $10.
    Doing it all fresh when you find what works $30
    Dam it scewed up another stopper. And so on. Lol
     
  12. Doug’s wines

    Doug’s wines Making (or Drinking) Wine

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    Just had a friend end up with a broken carboy that was just sitting under pressure using the headspace eliminator. Anyone else have this happen to them? The carboy developed a leak at the base and when he found it, he tried to move the carboy. The bottom fell off and he lost a whole batch of almost ready amarone.
     
  13. sour_grapes

    sour_grapes Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers

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    I really, really doubt the headspace eliminator had anything to do with it.
     
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  14. Doug’s wines

    Doug’s wines Making (or Drinking) Wine

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    Maybe or maybe not. Currently it is getting the blame. Even if it was a glass flaw, the (negative) pressure is ultimately the likely initiator of the leak as the carboy was sitting for weeks before the leak began and only disturbance was maintenance of the headspace eliminator’s pressure.
     
  15. sour_grapes

    sour_grapes Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers

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    Fair enough. But anyway, to directly answer your question: No, I have not had that happen to me (even though I routinely pull deep vacuums on my carboys).
     
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  16. vacuumpumpman

    vacuumpumpman Vendor

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    I would like to know a couple of answers to these questions -

    Was he using the Allinonewinepump ?

    If not what vacuum pressures did he bring it down to ? and for how long ?

    The carboy will typically go from 22 inches of vacuum and removing CO2 till it reaches around 14 inches of vacuum

    I have noticed that cleaning or rinsing any carboy with anything more than room temperature water can cause the glass to get stress cracks if not crack suddenly.

    I have pulled vacuum till I was actually was boiling water for many hours - with no issues

    I will keep monitoring this discussion
     
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  17. Trevor7

    Trevor7 Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    From what I've seen, chances are that they dinged the carboy moving it around. Doesn't have to be hard, but the slightest chip can spread into a full on crack.
     
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  18. Doug’s wines

    Doug’s wines Making (or Drinking) Wine

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    Hi Steve, yes he was using your AIO which he found based on my suggestion from reading posts on this forum even though I don’t personally use one. He was looking for a more effective degassing solution which led me to suggest the AIO to him based solely on reviews on this board so I feel a bit responsible for his situation thus when it came up here I thought I would see if anyone else has had a similar experience given I can’t find anything on cyclical fatigue or thermal performance testing of standard glass carboys online. I was not trying to disparage or single out any solution.

    I feel like at this point this thread is getting hijacked :ot: so we should probably either move this particular conversation offline or start another topic as it seems beyond the scope of toping a carboy up :)
     
  19. sour_grapes

    sour_grapes Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers

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    You have? So I can be safe, I would like to know details. What exactly have you noticed?
     
  20. vacuumpumpman

    vacuumpumpman Vendor

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    @ Paul -

    Glass does not like large temperature changes - I took this article from here It can explain it better than I can
    - http://www.aleslombergar.com/forum/at-what-temperature-does-glass-break-from-being-cold-to-hot/


    Glass will break when internal stresses are set up which cause the glass to fracture. These stresses are set up when the temperature of the glass is not uniform from one place to another. So, it is not so much a function of the temperature as the speed of a change in temperature which makes certain parts hotter or cooler than others.
     

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