Tomato wine - my fastest ferment so far

[Jovimaple]

I didn't backsweeten either of my tomato batches. I put 10 lightly crushed peppercorns in one gallon of it for a few months. There's a slight hint of pepper in that batch.

Last night at a networking event for work, I had some chardonnay just to remind myself what it tastes like, and yes, I agree that my tomato wine tastes like chardonnay with a slight tomato aftertaste. I really like it! And I, too, plan to increase the number of tomato plants in my garden, so I can make more tomato wine this year!!

 

[BigDaveK]

I didn't backsweeten either of my tomato batches. I put 10 lightly crushed peppercorns in one gallon of it for a few months. There's a slight hint of pepper in that batch.

Generally I don't like a dry wine and that's why I'm extra shocked that I loved a dry tomato wine, of all things.

And I'm really wondering - my ferment took off and was over 90F, don't know why. How would a lower temp and longer ferment affect flavor? I know I really like one way, I'll have to experiment with the other.

 

[Raptor99]

Like I said above I used about 18 lbs fresh for 4 gallons.

Was this for a 6 gallon batch, like the recipe in the link? So about 3 lbs. of tomatoes per gallon? From your comment above, it sounds like you got 4 gallons in secondary from a starting 6 gallons in primary. Is that right?

Any feeling on yellow vs. red varieties of tomatoes? I have a bumper crop of tomatoes right now, so I want to freeze some and then start a batch soon.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Yellow has a higher pH than red. Watch the acid required. That noted there is no reason for not using yellow tomato.

 

[BigDaveK]

Was this for a 6 gallon batch, like the recipe in the link? So about 3 lbs. of tomatoes per gallon? From your comment above, it sounds like you got 4 gallons in secondary from a starting 6 gallons in primary. Is that right?

Any feeling on yellow vs. red varieties of tomatoes? I have a bumper crop of tomatoes right now, so I want to freeze some and then start a batch soon.

My early notes are lacking, unfortunately, but I can confidently say it was a 5 gallon batch (or a bit less) since I used a 5 gallon bucket. And the reason I used 18 lbs of tomatoes was because that's all I had in the freezer at the time. Would using more tomatoes give a tomato taste? I don't know. I didn't have a hint of tomato with my quantity.

I used dark red heirloom tomatoes and apparently the color is not stable. In that respect the kind of tomato doesn't seem to matter. However, pH (like @Rice_Guy mentioned) is a different matter that may need attention.

I was hoping to try the super sweet little tomatoes this year but it didn't work out for me.

I've done a few unusual wines and tomato is absolutely worth doing.

I'll be interested in what you do so please keep us posted.

 

[vinny]

I did 3 1 gallon batches, 2 were fire roasted on the bbq and 1 was raw. 2 had 4 lbs and 1 roasted batch had 7.5 lbs. The raw was good and bottled in April at 5 months. The others I still have in secondary coming up on 10 months. I oaked one, and although I thought they were coming together I thought they needed more time and effort. I didn't make notes, but I believe I was surprised that one had mellowed while the other was still strong. I wouldn't say they tasted tomato-ie, but they all had a strong after taste that was amplified by the roasting

I definitely wouldn't roast them again, and I would either change my processing method or reduce the amount of tomato.

I strained them using my stand mixer.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/roasted-tomato-wine-i-went-for-it.76821/
I personally would split yellow vs red to compare. Yellow have a lighter tomato taste and are sweeter. I think they would make a nicer wine, but I have been wrong at time or two in the past.

 

[winemaker81]

I used dark red heirloom tomatoes and apparently the color is not stable. In that respect the kind of tomato doesn't seem to matter. However, pH (like @Rice_Guy mentioned) is a different matter that may need attention.

I wonder if using a maceration enzyme like Color Pro would pull color from the pulp? Also, add oak shreds or chips at fermentation time to help stabilize color. I suspect it may work like it does in red wines.

Or add hibiscus?

 

[BigDaveK]

I wonder if using a maceration enzyme like Color Pro would pull color from the pulp? Also, add oak shreds or chips at fermentation time to help stabilize color. I suspect it may work like it does in red wines.

Or add hibiscus?

The primary color of tomato is provided by lycopene which is considered a carotonoid. I believe carotonoids don't hold up well to fermentation but I could be wrong. (Fuzzy memory.)

Hibiscus! Why didn't I think of that?

 

[Raptor99]

@winemaker81 If you add hibiscus for color, does it influence the flavor? How much do you use?

 

[winemaker81]

@winemaker81 If you add hibiscus for color, does it influence the flavor? How much do you use?

I haven't used it. @BigDaveK and I have been discussing various things, including how much color hibiscus produces. My comment was me just thinking about what he had said. He may be able to chime in regarding amounts.

 

[BigDaveK]

@winemaker81 If you add hibiscus for color, does it influence the flavor? How much do you use?

This year I fell in love with dried hibiscus and elderberries and I'm surprised and shocked that more people aren't using hibiscus for wine. Using 2 oz of dried hibiscus makes a delicious you'd-swear-it-was-berry wine. Beautiful dark burgundy.



I've used 1 oz as an addition and surprisingly I get the same color, berry flavor not as pronounced. I hope to try 1/2 or 1/4 oz (and maybe less!) in the near future primarily for color.

 

[winemaker81]

I've used 1 oz as an addition and surprisingly I get the same color, berry flavor not as pronounced. I hope to try 1/2 or 1/4 oz (and maybe less!) in the near future primarily for color.

Strawberry wine is always disappointing for color. Even half an oz would make a huge difference.

 

[Raptor99]

Today I started two batches of tomato wine. I decided to take @vinny up on his suggestion to do a comparison, so there will be two experimental batches, one with yellow tomatoes and one with red.

The conventional wisdom is that yellow tomatoes are less acidic than the red ones. So I was surprised by my measurements. I measured Brix and pH in the juice released when I initially cut up the tomatoes. Then I measured pH again after freezing/thawing/mashing. My reasoning is that the results might be different after extracting more of the juice from the tomato flesh. Here are the results:

	Brix of juice	pH of juice	pH after thawing
Yellow	5.9	4.05	4.18
Red	4.0	4.3	4.41

As expected, the yellow tomatoes have more sugar than the red one. Bur surprisingly, the yellow tomatoes are more acidic. The extra sugar reduces the perception of acidity, but the pH tells a different story.

I should add that I did my best to choose fully ripe but not overripe tomatoes of both varieties. The yellow are Yellow Brandywine and the reds are Beefsteak.

I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

 

[Raptor99]

I bottled my tomato wine yesterday, so I thought I'd post an update:

I fermented red and yellow tomatoes separately using the same recipe and yeast, to see what the difference would be.

Color: In the middle you can see the two bottled wines. The color is the the same. On the right and left are the fine lees from bulk aging, after 24 hours in the fridge. As you can see the fine fruit particles retain the red and yellow tomato color. It seems that the color is bound to non-soluble molecules, so the original color does not remain in the finished wine. Once the wine clears, the color is gone.

Flavor: I found the yellow tomato wine to be pleasant to drink, with no objectionable flavors. It is a little boring, so I think that next time I will lightly oak it during bulk aging. The red tomato wine has a distinctive vegetative flavor and aftertaste that is not entirely pleasant. Both wines have good body, and both are better with a little bit of back sweetening. I will see how theses wines taste after several more months aging in the bottles.

My takeaway is that this year I am going to plant more yellow tomatoes!

 

[BigDaveK]

I bottled my tomato wine yesterday, so I thought I'd post an update:
View attachment 110648
I fermented red and yellow tomatoes separately using the same recipe and yeast, to see what the difference would be.

Color: In the middle you can see the two bottled wines. The color is the the same. On the right and left are the fine lees from bulk aging, after 24 hours in the fridge. As you can see the fine fruit particles retain the red and yellow tomato color. It seems that the color is bound to non-soluble molecules, so the original color does not remain in the finished wine. Once the wine clears, the color is gone.

Flavor: I found the yellow tomato wine to be pleasant to drink, with no objectionable flavors. It is a little boring, so I think that next time I will lightly oak it during bulk aging. The red tomato wine has a distinctive vegetative flavor and aftertaste that is not entirely pleasant. Both wines have good body, and both are better with a little bit of back sweetening. I will see how theses wines taste after several more months aging in the bottles.

My takeaway is that this year I am going to plant more yellow tomatoes!

I'm not surprised by the lack of color. The carotonoids don't survive fermentation, unfortunately, so whatever vegetable has it you can kiss that color goodbye. Interestingly, though, my wines from sweeter peppers are pale yellow while the hot peppers are rose'.

I really liked my tomato wine and I'm wondering - is it because I had 5 varieties? Or is a tomato a tomato and I was just lucky? It's begging for more experiments!

 

[Raptor99]

I really liked my tomato wine and I'm wondering - is it because I had 5 varieties? Or is a tomato a tomato and I was just lucky? It's begging for more experiments!

I am wondering as well. There are many variables, including the variety of tomato and the exact degree of ripeness.

I used 10 lbs. of tomatoes in an initial total volume of 1.75 gal. That is similar to the amount I use for other fruits, but maybe it is too much for tomatoes.

 

[vinny]

I am wondering as well. There are many variables, including the variety of tomato and the exact degree of ripeness.

I used 10 lbs. of tomatoes in an initial total volume of 1.75 gal. That is similar to the amount I use for other fruits, but maybe it is too much for tomatoes.

I made 3 gallons. 2 roasted, 1 raw. 1 roasted was double the fruit of the others. I liked the raw the best. It was the most balanced and the tomato not tomato sharp aftertaste was not as prevalent. I think I would reduce the fruit in that recipe, or go yellow if I were to make another tomato.