Toasted marshmallow flavors and aromas?

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Ty520

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We just had a Counoise that had wonderful, amazing toasted marshmallow aromas and flavors.

I was wondering if anyone knows what imparts this profile (some sort of chemical reaction,etc) ? Can it be imparted (naturally...no use of extracts, etc) in other wines and alcoholic beverages? (Akin to using MLF to produce diacetyls)
 

balatonwine

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First, be aware there is a "difference" between a wine's aroma and its bouquet. Here is a good introduction:


I mention the difference because what imparted the toasted marshmallow can come from many different sources: The grape variety itself, the place it was grown (the local soil, climate, that year's weather), and/or the wine making style. Anything "toasted", for example, probably has been oaked but there are even different styles of oaking (new barrel, char level of the oak, source of the wood (US versus Europe), etc etc etc). Marshmallow may be classified as maybe nutty or caramel in character, which may come from the oaking, aging, or from other processes such as how much contact the wine has with the yeast lees, as one example.

Or the toasted marshmallow could be due to actually 'cooking' the wine (see the link above for details).

So basically, it could be from many factors, and it might be complicated, but not necessarily impossible, to repeat the exact experience you are describing.

Hope this helps.
 
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Rice_Guy

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If I was putting a marshmallow flavor into a product I would add a caramelized sugar, low heat long time cook. The longer you heat the sugar the more you will generate caramel notes. The higher the temperature the more burnt notes develop.
 

Ty520

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If I was putting a marshmallow flavor into a product I would add a caramelized sugar, low heat long time cook. The longer you heat the sugar the more you will generate caramel notes. The higher the temperature the more burnt notes develop.

yeah, i've done a couple bochet meads of various carmelization. it is very distinctive - tricky to get really dark toasty notes without burning though; once it's burned, it cannot be hidden or taken out
 

Ty520

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Oddly enough, I have only met one wine drinker who can detect distinct flavors in wine (other than flavored coolers) such as peach, apricot, grass, minerals, etc. and he said he can only detect a flavor once in a while.

One thing i've learned about the psychology of wine tasting is that you can easily influence perception of taste by simply suggesting a flavor, aroma or bouquet; most of the time it works on most people - however, there have been a few times I called BS though; and, of course, everyones' senses are unique and different, and will perceive differently to two people, no matter what.
 

Bohemiana

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Oddly enough, I have only met one wine drinker who can detect distinct flavors in wine (other than flavored coolers) such as peach, apricot, grass, minerals, etc. and he said he can only detect a flavor once in a while.
Last night friends had a bottle of pinot noir and a bottle of domaine du sac from a Wisconsin winery. To me the pinot was quite nice but didn't have a distinctive aroma/flavor and it was light in fruit. However, the domaine du sac had a very distinctive aroma of leather and smoke, and it was very dry. I can often taste apricot, grapefruit, grass/green, strawberry, berries, jam, sometimes mineral, etc. I detect these aromas and flavors typically in mid- and high-priced bottles of wine. We have only made a few kits (at the low end of the brands) and I don't taste any complexity. We just purchased 3 new low-end kits (from Amazon) and I'm eager to tweak them with tips from this forum to deliver those nuances to the wine.
 

NoQuarter

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I had a toasted marshmallow note in a country wine a few years back and I know the cause. before back sweetening I was heating the sugar in a little water and got it over the boiling point doing too many things at once...( not sure what temp). Rather than discard and start over, I added it to the wine and it definitely changed the aroma and had marshmallow overtone to it. The only problem was, it was not a good addition to a cactus fruit wine.
 

DWilder

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We just had a Counoise that had wonderful, amazing toasted marshmallow aromas and flavors.

I was wondering if anyone knows what imparts this profile (some sort of chemical reaction,etc) ? Can it be imparted (naturally...no use of extracts, etc) in other wines and alcoholic beverages? (Akin to using MLF to produce diacetyls)
I’d love to know what it was! I’ve been searching for that flavor note for years, after having a light but complex, 2010 Chloe Creek Pinot noir that I tasted it in distinctly and have never tasted it’s equal.
 

BigDaveK

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I’d love to know what it was! I’ve been searching for that flavor note for years, after having a light but complex, 2010 Chloe Creek Pinot noir that I tasted it in distinctly and have never tasted it’s equal.
I hope to explore marshmallow flavor also.
I planted marshmallow plants this past year for this purpose. The flowers have virtually no taste but the leaves have a definite though subtle wonderful marshmallow flavor. Unfortunately my plants weren't robust enough to explore leaf usage. Second year roots are supposed to be the mother load of flavor so perhaps next year, fingers crossed.
 

winemanden

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Oddly enough, I have only met one wine drinker who can detect distinct flavors in wine (other than flavored coolers) such as peach, apricot, grass, minerals, etc. and he said he can only detect a flavor once in a while.
I've often thought that most people taste with preconceived ideas as to what they should taste. It's difficult trying to remember what a previous wine tasted of, even more difficult to put it into words. Some folks are too embarrassed to admit that they can't taste whatever they are supposed to be tasting.
How often have you tasted something in a wine that you can't identify? "It's supposed to taste of - Blackcurrant, Apricot, Banana etc. etc. so it must be that". As Balaton says there's a difference between Aroma and Bouquet.
That's one reason for the label on the back.
Just thinking aloud again!
 

Ty520

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I’d love to know what it was! I’ve been searching for that flavor note for years, after having a light but complex, 2010 Chloe Creek Pinot noir that I tasted it in distinctly and have never tasted it’s equal.

It was a 2019 Autumn Sage Counoise. The following year was very different. I eventually talked with the vintner and he said it was just luck that year - wasn't intentional and probably couldn't reproduce it if he wanted to because he does wild fermentation
 

Ty520

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I've often thought that most people taste with preconceived ideas as to what they should taste. It's difficult trying to remember what a previous wine tasted of, even more difficult to put it into words. Some folks are too embarrassed to admit that they can't taste whatever they are supposed to be tasting.
How often have you tasted something in a wine that you can't identify? "It's supposed to taste of - Blackcurrant, Apricot, Banana etc. etc. so it must be that". As Balaton says there's a difference between Aroma and Bouquet.
That's one reason for the label on the back.
Just thinking aloud again!

I would normally agree - however the opposite can also be true: if a profile is planted in a taster's mind beforehand, it can immediately bias them toward detecting it.

We did take some friends there shortly after who enjoy wine, but don't get into the whole tasting experience, and they picked up on it very quickly without any prompts. It was one of the most blatant flavor and bouquets I can remember; what's more is that it was prominently observable in BOTH flavor and bouquet, which I think is pretty rare
 
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