Time to move to carboy

Discussion in 'Beginners Wine Making Forum' started by Donatelo, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    I'm making a three gallon batch of Dragon's Blood. I started this on Dec 6th. The SG was 1.072 at that time. I have followed the directions (Stir, Sg , Temp. ect ) every day. The temp in my office is a constant 74 F. The SG is now .998 and I removed the fruit pack. It will soon be time to move it to a carboy. Would it be better to age it in the back bedroom closet(Temp 68 F) for the remainder of the fermentation?
    Do you think it would mellow the wine any? Tastes pretty harsh right now.
     
  2. dcbrown73

    dcbrown73 Clueless Winemaker

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    If you're following the directions, I wouldn't worry to much about how it tastes now. If you're still fermenting, you haven't yet back-sweetened which is necessary for dragon's blood. (other wise, it's EXTREMELY tart) Dragon's Blood is drinkable fairly quickly and it only gets better with time. It will taste good at 12 weeks and it will taste much better at 1 year.

    As for where to store it. Either will work and the temperatures aren't that far a part. I store mine at 72F. I would think the cooler the better though. If I could do 68F I would.
     
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  3. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    As soon as it finishes the ferment in the primary I'll rack it and move to the closet.. I should back sweeten after it is finished, just before bottling?
     
  4. dcbrown73

    dcbrown73 Clueless Winemaker

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    Once it's fully finished fermenting. (0.990 or so) Add your sorbate and then back sweeten. Then start aging it in the carboy. I like six months in the carboy then to the bottle, but of course. If you're in a hurry you can go into the bottle at eight weeks. I would recommend at least twelve weeks, but trust me. Take notes of the flavor profile. Then save one bottle. Hide it somewhere and find it at one year. Taste it too and take notes of it's flavor profile, then compare the two. A year old Dragons Blood is much much smoother and better!

    Whatever you do, ENJOY!
     
  5. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Again, there’s 9 ways to skin a cat. But Clearing agent is typically used in DB. (As per the infamous directions at least) I rack to glass and then rack again in a few days when it’s time to add the dualFine and sorbate. Let it clear for a week. Rack off crud. Then backsweeten. Then age.
     
  6. vernsgal

    vernsgal Just me Supporting Member

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    If the SG has been a consistent for at least 3 days I would say it's done fermenting and to age where ever it's good for you.(without getting too warm). I have found with all my wines, it's best to age where it's a constant temp.If planning to bulk age at least 6 months, you won't need a clearing agent. Otherwise , if adding sweetness, add sorbate, clearing agents, and degas. Then let age for at least 2 months
     
  7. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    It isn't finished yet . Sg is .992 this morning. It was .998 yesterday. Just waiting for it to finish. I am doing this recipe strictly by the book. Except , I don't have any sparkloid. I do however have BSG brand gelatin. does anyone use this as a fining agent?
     
  8. Scooter68

    Scooter68 Still getting started at 26 batches & 2 1./2 years

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    Don't know if this will help. Couple of links to descriptions of the pros and cons of various fining agents. Hope this helps.

    http://www.makewine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Fining.pdf

    https://winemakermag.com/715-using-fining-agents-techniques

    I've only used Bentonite to any extent. It's little bit of a pain to prep but works great. Doesn't seem to strip out color or flavor in my experience with both whites (Peach Apple, Apricot) or Reds (Blueberry, Blackberry, Black Currant).

    The first link has some negatives on gelatin - Mostly if too much is used or if used on an old wine. Doubt either will apply for you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  9. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    Where do you guys come up with these great articles? Wow tells me everything that I need to know. Thanks.
    The must is just about finished and I have to go to Norman Ok. on Tuesday. The wine supply is there and I'll see what I can pick up there. Maybe a Kieselsol-chitosan pack.
     
  10. Scooter68

    Scooter68 Still getting started at 26 batches & 2 1./2 years

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    I find articles often when I get desperate. I have a situation come up that I need to handle ASAP and sometimes it takes a couple of days for responses on here. So I go searching and reading, and reading and re-reading. THEN I have to decide what guidance to follow since there is often a variety of opinions on how to handle various situations.

    Good luck on that clearing - I've had a couple of stubborn batches - first was apple and now I have 3 peach and one peach/reisling batch all of which slow to clear. BUT since I'm planning on aging these at least 9-12 months before bottling - guess I can wait them out. :ft and wait and wait....
     
  11. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    I made a 6 gallon kit Peach Chardonnay that took forever to clear. Because of the peach, I suppose. Turned out weak , but it needs to get some age on it. I made 3 gallon batch of Cherry Blackberry wine that cleared wonderfully three days after racking to a carboy. My first wine was a Welch's concord grape and it turned all kinds of colors until one day I checked on it and it started to clear.
    It's all just a big funny mystery to me. Thanks for your input and the great info.
     
  12. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    This is the third day at a stable SG. In the morning I will rack it to a carboy and discard the gross lees.(Feed it to the birds and squirrels) Everyone deserves a little fun!
    This wine has started to look somewhat clearer, already. Interesting!













    this
     
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  13. Scooter68

    Scooter68 Still getting started at 26 batches & 2 1./2 years

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    Yeah - I think one of the things to look at with a juice is how clear it is to begin with. Peach, Apple (Unfiltered) , Apricot and several others - freshly crushed, the juice just sitting there no fermentation, will not clear on it's own. Grape juice, Blackberry, Blueberry and a number of others will pretty much settle out and clear on their own. Perhaps looking at the fruit variety in a store bought bottle would be a good tip? Not certain on this but it's a start. There is something that causes them to have particles remain suspended even when chilled.
     
  14. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    I racked it to a carboy and added the sparkleoid. Now its just a waiting game, I plan to back sweeten this 3 gallons with 1.5 cups sugar and set it in the cellar. Maybe bottle it in late January.
     
  15. Trick

    Trick Senior Member

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    I hate sparkleod so much. It ruins almost all my fruit wine (even it is still drinkable). The wine kit store recommended to me. When I bottled them, every time it looks crystal clear. However, after a couple months in bottle, fluffy sediments showed up.
    The clarifier comes with kits doesn't have such issue and is always a success. Not sure if a combination of bentonite and sparkloid (positive + negative) will make any difference.
    Now I tend to go with SuperKlear (also a combination of + and - charges). However, it is hard to measure for small batches and a little bit costly.
     
  16. Scooter68

    Scooter68 Still getting started at 26 batches & 2 1./2 years

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    I've bought some sparkoloid but haven't used it yet. Bentonite hasn't been a cureall for me but I've seen it knock out a lot of junk. One would expect that with the use of both positive charged and negative charged clearing agents it should all be cleared out. Sometimes these wine batches are just stubborn things. I've decided to let that be a reason to keep my wines in bulk aging for longer.
     
  17. Donatelo

    Donatelo Senior Member

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    Trick, I'm sorry to hear that you've had bad luck with Sparkoloid in fruit based wines. How many times has it ruined your wine?
    I bought and added this because it was specifically specified in Dave's Dragon Blood recipe.
    Scooter68, In view of Trick's post , do you intend to use it in a fruit wine? It contains Diatomite(diatomaceous earth) which is a volcanic ash. I have used it to rid my horses of bot larvae. It is not an insecticide, but works to grind the skin of the insects and they die. Very fine abrasive substance that.
     
  18. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    I’ve had dualfine (previously named superklear I believe) do the exact same thing in DB In spite of having both the + and - charges. I think there may be other factors at play.
    It was clear but the few leftover that ended up aging developed some fluffy sediment. Wasn’t a lot and didn’t affect anything. May have a lot to do with DB not really being an “aging” type of wine. As well as how it is stored. (Mine was at room temps). Noticed at about the 6 month mark.
    DB isn’t a saver. Its a drinker. It’s an early to bottle giveaway and early drinker.
     
  19. sour_grapes

    sour_grapes Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers

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    This is not important or germane to the subject at hand, but that has never stopped me before! Diatomaceous earth is not of volcanic origin. It comes from, well, diatoms, a class of microscopic algae. These are quite symmetric, with two matching halves -- hence the name "diatom." Diatomaceous earth is the sedimentary detritus of their "skeletons."


    [​IMG]
     
  20. Trick

    Trick Senior Member

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    Almost ruined every batch of the fruit wine I used Sparkolloid. At the beginning, I thought it was re-fermentation due to the sugar I used for backsweeten and was in big panic and opened quite a few bottles to avoid explosion. But I found that was not the case, not sign of gas release. Then did some extensive search in internet and found sparkolloid is the one to blame. It needs extensive clarification period to settle out all the solids hidden in the crystal clear liquid. This is a kind of annoying. Other than that, great care should be taken not to disturb the light fluffy things at the bottle of the carboy during racking.
    Typically my workflow is to age without degassing and fining for extend period of time (to keep CO2 in to mitigate oxidation) and do vacuum degassing and clarification 3 weeks before bottling. It works out great for wine kits using chitosan comes with the kits. However, for fruit wine, I don't have other fining agent other than bentonite and sparkolloid available. I used sparkolloid all the time since it works great at the first three week until a couple of months in bottle. The fluffy stuff comes out!. Even I can still drink it without impact on taste. But it really looks awful, especially the bottles I gave out to my friends. I guess some of them might have dumped it into sink.
    As a further experiment, I would try the combination of bentonite and sparkolloid for the next small batch and revise my workflow by extending the aging period after clarification by at least three months before bottling to see if it will improve or not. At the same time for the big batches, I will stay away that guy and use superklear instead. Thx
     

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