Time for a radical departure in bulk aging rules?

[RickC]

I never knew the Accuvin test kits had a shelf life...

 

[ibglowin]

Yep, and they are pretty short too. Just got my 10 pack yesterday and the expiration is 12/2010.........

 

[patc]

AHHHH the should i bulk age or not question,


Well here ismy two cents worth, I usually bulk age for about three months and i do so without clearing the wine as it's my understanding that it will add complexity to a wine letting it bulk age on the lees. Additionally if i add oak i can usually get the oak i want in 8 to 10 weeks so adding the clearing agent at that point puts me right about three months or so, having said that if you clear your wine early i do not believe there is any benefit to aging the wine in bulk unless of course you are trying to add a little more oak or complexity on the leesas it would then be the same as bottle aging, so why not bottle? In additon your wine should age faster in the bottle than the carboy and three months should be plenty of time for your wine to find itself but if you want to bulk age go for it, but i would sugesst not clearing your wine so you will have the benefit of extracting the complexity of course rack as needed and you might find you do not need to use the clearing agent at all.Also by bottling at three months there really should not be an issue with the sulfite level by using a 1/4 teaspon BUT you need to know what the sulfite product you are using imparts per gal as this is crucial to getting an accurate level meaning there are products out there that impart 100 parts per million per 1/8 teaspoon, per 1/16 teaspoon and so on so you need to know what you are working with as well and what your levels are and using the accuvin couldn't be easier.

Pat

 

[ibglowin]

UPDATE

Got my Accuvin kit delivered on Friday. Shipped out from DFW on Wednesday, love it when that happens.

I bottled my MM AJ Sangiovese yesterday (pics in another post) and tested this batch first. I added K-Meta at day 21 as usual and then added 1/4 tsp 90 days later and bottled 90 days after the last addition so it was supposedly due for another top up dose.

I followed the Accuvin directions to the letter (they have a nice video on their website as well) and once everything was ready added my sample of Sangiovese to the kit and waited the 5 minutes.

At 5 minutes I took the reading and had my wife (who has much better vision color accuracy than me) assist with the reading. At first it looked like it was right at the 40ppm level but then after a few more minutes more color developed and it seemed like it had dropped down to the next level which is 28ppm and it stayed there. It was pretty cool (58) in the winery so perhaps the Rxn was a little slower than if it was 72. Anyways I was very happy to not see it down to the 10ppm or less category. I added another 1/4tsp of K-Meta but I did not want to use up another test kit to see what it was brought up to but I plan on testing all the rest of my batches just before bottling.

Perhaps the high altitude (lower oxygen) and lower atmospheric pressure has helped out here and slowed down the oxidation process.

Will report back with the next batch in a few weeks !

 

[Dean]

from someone who bulk ages all the time, usually 1 to 2 years WITH an airlock on, I've never had a wine that was judged as oxidized, nor even slightly oxidized. Before we all start getting paranoid about oxidation, we might want to get some references to actual real world numbers and tests to justify the claim that bulk aging past 3 months with an airlock can oxidize your wine.

There are already too many myths out there, and I feel there is no need to propagate more myths. Evidence speaks volumes. Words without evidence, is just well...words.

 

[patc]

Now that's the proof that's in the pudding!!!!!! Ya know that's why i love this forum so much there are a lot of guys who just have a lot of experience which equates to wisdom and we are all thankful for it

 

[AlFulchino]

Dean....good points to raise...but would you really feel comfortable w a solid bung on a long term age vessel...or an airlock that is subject to evaporation and necessary maintenance?

i suspect that you properly maintain what your wine needs and are dutiful...so you wont have significant issues...but to me a water filled air lock is an accident waiting to happen for long term aging

so as far as words having meaning....i would associate 'accidents' w air locks...and 'consistency' w sold bungs

if a person has one or two vessels...even three or four....well then you can monitor them...but that gets old sooner or later

i have never seen a fruit fly find his way into wine via a solid bung.....i have seen them enter the airlock....who needs that extra issue and issues like it?

tell me why you thing a liquid that evaporates and transfers items from the air above and the wine below and sitting in a little plastic tube is any different than tellling your six yr old to drive his tricycle to school on the streets each day ( not the sidewalks)...sure it can work....but you add risks that are unnecessary

 

[Cracked Cork]

Al, it never ever gets old checking on airlocks, at least it shouldnt if you dont view winemaking as work. I look forward to my visits to my carboys a couple of times a week just to make sure everything is OK. We have been aging ours for at least a year now and dont degass until right before bottling so a solid stopper would be most unwise in our winery, we have a little squirt bottle to fill up the airlocks with, no problems at all. Crackedcork

 

[grapeman]

While I would prefer to keep my wine in an alternative storage vessel such as stainless or even poly tanks like Als, I have to work with what I have presently. I don't rush my wine to bottles, but remember I make wine from grapes. I do use carboys and airlocks. I still have virtually all last falls wines in carboys at this point. The whites are very close to bottling, but the reds will be there until at least August. I rely on airlocks, but I don't worry about them. I monitor them also every couple days and have never had one pop out like I have had several solid bungs do. I monitor them to make sure they aren't getting low and can even note air pressure changes as the water level is either positive or negative.


I begin storage with k-meta in the airlock, then switch to vodka as the temps get cold. I then switch back to k-meta towards spring. I change the water out every few months, but that isn't really a chore, it is part of the process. I do it when I am doing another operation on the wine. For the whites, I change it at times like racking off lees and then again after cold stabilizing. I also add needed S02 at those points, so the airlock is off anyways- just dump it out and fill back up with fresh. The reds get it before put to sleep after mlf dies down in the fall and again after waking up in the spring to finish mlf.


My point is, that anything will work when properly monitored and maintained and not locked away or forgotten (like poor Smurfe).

 

[AlFulchino]

ok ....all i can say is this......if anyone has time for maintaining air locks then you have too much free time on your hands i am not interested in unnecessary maintenance

one day....everyone who relies on air locks will have a problem....bugs

hammer in a solid bung and you walk away........if a solid bung is popped out then it was put in too early in the wine's life....i have also seen airlocks pop out.....it has more to do w an initial dry seal between rubber and glass

i also have some wine in carboys.....i have solid bungs on them......and i have aged some glass product right now that is 1.5 years aged..i see no betterment of the wine by having stayed w an airlock......

 

[grapeman]

You are right Al, I have too much free time on my hands

. That's why I am working on the winery to take up that spare time and keep myself busy.


Believe me, I would rather not use carboys at all, but with 15 - 20 different wines going in small lots, it is necessary. If I really wanted to use solid bungs, I could buy them and put them in. I would not trust them to stay because I am notoriuos for not getting a good initial seal and having them pop out. I could use tape on them to ensure they stay put, but it's a hastle putting it on and removing it after to do wine maintenance. For now, it is just a more time effective way for me to deal with my lack of barrels or tanks.


How is pruning coming? I'm about half done now.

 

[PolishWineP]

Wow! Isn't it great that we have a place to have these discussions! I've enjoyed all the different views here.

Our house has been at a standstill as far as working with our wines. Summer went into harvest and then deer hunting followed quickly by disabilities. Bottling hasn't been high on our priority list. Our airlocks are maintained with k-meta and the wine sits quietly, waiting for our return to strength.
Even in the best of times we tend to bulk age as it KEEPS BERT FROM OPENING BOTTLES BEFORE HE SHOULD! Yes, my sweet husband can't seem to keep the cork in bottles that need a little more time.

Put our schedules and seasons with that and bulk aging seems to be what we need to do. That said, whatever works for your home winery is what you should do. Like your solid bungs better than airlocks? Then that's what you should do. We like airlocks here, so that's what we use. It can all seem confusing at times,

but yet was all manage to turn out some really good wines.

I myself am looking forward to the day when I can once again help carry a full carboy and run the floor corker! Happy wining to you all!

 

[ibglowin]

So is anyone else out there checking sulfite levels routinely? Since sulfite is your insurance policy against spoilage you would think more people would be concerned with levels but maybe thats just the analytical chemist sneaking out in me.......

Anyway I got my Buon Vino solid (hard plastic) stoppers on Friday. These are the same ones I use in my airlocks only without a hole. Once you insert them in fully, they stay put!

Its the soft rubber ones that keep popping out.

At this point my plan is to use an airlock for 3 months to allow for any residual trapped CO2 to escape, then solid stopper and check sulfite levels after 3 months and then again at bottling time at around ~ 7 months.

 

[vcasey]

So is anyone else out there checking sulfite levels routinely?

I did for a bit but since it was consistently showing I needed to add more every 3 months I simply use that as my guide and save the $$$ for other things. Like Dean & PWP, I bulk age mine for a while and I have never had any problems.
The key to all this is just find what works best for you and go with it, because what works best for you may not work as well for someone else.

 

[AlFulchino]

Rich..i prune my first vine in about an hr...will try for 5 rows a day for two weeks...and at the same time maybe install a few posts if time permits

PolishP..yes it is great that we have this place...

Mike....and speaking of trapped co2....watch the temps and it will escape w/o much effort to degas

Rich...speaking of carboys...i have about 40 going right now......my aging area has about three places to drop a foot.....should be freer in may some time

 

[Dean]

hey Al, Fermrite silicone bungs work as a 1 way valve, otherwise known as the "waterless airlock". Put them in, and forget about them.

I use the 3 part airlocks for when the wine is young. I use them for about 3 or 4 months. After that, I switch to the triple bubble type airlock for bulk aging. These ones don't seem to dry anywhere near as fast and I've yet to see a fruit fly in one of those.

When I finally move to have a proper operation, and won't be making small batches, then I'll also move to proper tanks and full sized barrels for storage.

 

[Cracked Cork]

And lets not forget there are those waterless airlocks out there that vent off the gas but dont let any O2 inside, these should make everyone happy but they dont seem to get disused very much?

Crackedcork

 

[vcasey]

I have a couple of those silicone bungs, they work great especially for those hard to reach carboys. For the rest I follow about the same procedure as Dean. Its also much easier to see the water level on the s-locks.
CC, I have a dry tap for one of my BBs that will be put in place in a couple of months when I give everyone their 3 month check up and shot of Kmeta.

 

[Bartman]

Mike,
I have never checked sulfite levels and don't plan on starting. I do enough fussing with the wine, I don't need another chore. I would consider that a chore, similar to cleaning and sanitizing everything before and after use, because it doesn't contribute directly to getting the wine completed, it seems like one more task done "just to be sure". That's not the fun part.
But, hey, if you enjoy that sort of task, then let the inner chemist come out and play!

 

[grapeman]

I think this is what you guys are talking about.



I use these also for certain needs. They are made for barrels to carboys and have a breathable flap.