This has probably been discussed elsewhere but what if i.....

[Dend78]

What if I were to ferment water and sugar to get the desired ABV then after stabilization and such added the juice in for back sweetening. Reason I ask is this I am going to make a mulberry wine but the problem is i only have 1.5ish gallons of juice and i would like to make a batch larger than that but fear losing my flavor and some color of the juice to the fermentation gremlin. so my brain turned a gear and a thought entered of what if i did say 2 gallons of water and sugar to say 1.100 and nutrient and energizer, then taking the normal efforts and and ending up with 3.5ish gallons after back sweetening with the juice and sugar to desired sweetness.

my brain keeps telling me this will work but I've had it tell me that several other times in life and luckily im still alive....so thoughts ideas comments?

 

[DoctorCAD]

You would only be making fortified juice, not wine.

It would be easier to just buy some Everclear or moonshine and pour that in the juice.

 

[Dend78]

hmmm mulberry shine

so really what are you making when you do sugar and water or for that matter honey and water? im interested in this especially after reading your sig haha

 

[BernardSmith]

I am no chemist but it strikes me that there are two fundamental issues in your suggestion. First you are fermenting plain (cane? ) sugar. Then you are adding flavoring (fruit flavor) but you are not in fact fermenting the juice. Is that not like adding OJ to a vodka? The other problem is that you are in fact diluting the juice, albeit with alcohol not water. Strikes me that if what you are looking for is the buzz - then go for it, but if you are looking to make a balanced fruit wine then I think you may be heading in the wrong direction. Your call, of course, but I would work with the smaller volume if that was all I had rather than ferment table sugar. THe thing about mead is that honey is filled with pollen and flavor molecules and all kinds of proteins and enzymes and stuff and when you ferment honey you get a very rich flavor profile. When you ferment sugar you get, I think, alcohol, not wine.

 

[Dend78]

yup your right and i see that side of it as well, but i look at the process and say your basic fruit juice wine, you add x amount of juice in primary and you ferment to dry, most flavor and some color is stripped away at this point, we then take more of the same juice to back sweeten and regain the flavor lost in fermentation. so basically you did the same thing. i haven't tried this which is the reason im questioning the whole process thats why im searching for input on it. i know to be considered wine by definition it has to be a fermented fruit or juice but it just seems like you are reinventing the wheel each time. this very well could be the flaw in my thinking but honestly im tempted just to experiment with it to see what taste/color/mouth feel really differences are. you are both right though you are just juicing up your alcohol but if you end with the same tasting/looking product and using half the juice/fruit you normally would isn't that a win? haha

again thanks for the input guys this is why im digging

 

[Putterrr]

It would be like making a mixed drink. But Iinstead of adding just the shot of vodka to orange jiuce, the low wines you produce will be much lower in alcohol so it would be like adding 1/3 shot vodka and 2/3 shot water to your orange juice. Not the same thing It would either be watered down or lacking much alcohol depending on how much you add. Better uses for your juice

Besides water and surgar do not ferment completely very well on their own. The yeast needs more nutrients. Home distillers learned this long ago. Try plugging 'plain old sugar wash' or 'neutral wash' in a search engine and you will see what i mean

cheers

 

[Dend78]

will do thanks!

ok i found this

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f61/water-wine-13017/

 

[BernardSmith]

I am not sure I agree with your basic premise that when we ferment fruit we are losing the flavors and aromas to the air and it is only by back-sweetening that we reclaim the flavors. My mixed berries, my meads, my elderflower, banana, apple, my gooseberry, rhubarb, pomegranate, etc etc etc all seem to be full of flavor even if I do not backsweeten. And when I do backsweeten I don't add more fruit juice. I simply add a little more sugar and it is that sugar that heightens (does not replace, but heightens) the fruit flavors (so a coffee wine I made needed sugar to balance the acidity, ditto an orange wine). Mind you I tend to ferment at the lowest temperatures I can get away with and I tend not to heat the musts and certainly not boil fruit.... so perhaps your technique is different and you are boiling off volatile flavor molecules.

 

[Dend78]

that very well could be actually i may be not getting the flavor im looking for because i dont use enough fruit and or juice as well i dont boil much i normally drop in fruit and press. i reclaim a lot of the flavor im looking for in F-Pak's and such or it could just be my redneck taste buds looking for good sweet flavors haha

 

[sour_grapes]

this very well could be the flaw in my thinking but honestly im tempted just to experiment with it to see what taste/color/mouth feel really differences are. you are both right though you are just juicing up your alcohol but if you end with the same tasting/looking product and using half the juice/fruit you normally would isn't that a win? haha

Absolutely, give it a try! People on this site are happy to share and generous with their knowledge, but they also encourage experimentation. Whaddya got to lose, a few pounds of sugar and some yeast nutrient!? Try it, that is the only way you will know for sure whether you like it or not!

 

[chrisjw]

I can tell you, a plain old sugar wash (fermented to 18%) does not taste very good unless, of course, it is ...um ... processed.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Dend, you are bringing up a couple of different questions. First is if you dilute your mulberry juice in any way you are going to loose the flavor, I think its always better to try to make as good a wine as I can and not aim for a specific volume and try to make the fruit stretch. Second do you want mulberry wine or mulberry flavored wine? I would ferment 1 gallon of your juice straight up, freeze the rest and thaw it out in a strainer, only take about 25% of that or keep measuring with your hydrometer, you want to concentrated sugar and flavor part of the juice not the water and use that as an F pac to boost the flavor. I would also drop a few strawberries in their as a carrier for the nose as mulberry is not one of the stronger scented fruits. Thirdly, honey has lots more in it than sugar so fermenting just honey to make a mead is actually very good, while just fermenting table sugar would be just so plain.

It sounds like as mentioned in previous posts, just add some everclear to your juice is about what you are saying, diluting mulberry juice is going to give you a very weak wine.

WVMJ

 

[Dend78]

i will give the water wine a try just to see what can be done with it, and i will end up doing the mulberry by itself, i just hate making a small batch liking it and having to wait months before they are ready again to get more hahah i will post up my findings!

and chris bahahaha shame shame