Tannins added as powder vs from oak

[orto]

I am trying to understand tannins better. I have seen that sometimes oak chips or sawdust is added during primary. Sometimes tannin powder is also used. I have read the descriptions from the tannin manufacturer and the tannins are derived from chestnut, or oak depending which one you use. So what is the reason someone would use oak powder rather than use oak derived tannin? Are there advantages and disadvantages from one source vs the other? Also why are some tannins used for primary and others used before bottling?

Thanks Dave

 

[stickman]

Here is a good thread.


http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42039

 

[orto]

Here is a good thread.


http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42039

I saw that, but I still don't understand why someone would use oak sawdust vs tannin powder or someone else might use both, or why tannin ft rouge is used during primary but tannin complex or tannin riche before bottling. How do the different tannins differ from one another. I see some people use one generic tannin for everything. Its a confusing topic.

Edit: I thought I had read that thread before but it turns out to be a different one, it is providing some of the answers I am looking for. Thanks

 

[heatherd]

@orto If you read that and still have questions, feel free to post.

I also found the Scott Labs website a good source of information: http://www.scottlab.com/products-29.aspx

 

[joeswine]

that was a good thread by pumpkinman...

 

[skeenatron]

The tannin manufacturers have it nailed. There are a variety of tannin in the world, and in our grapes. The tannins products they sell are designed to do many things, and are made up of a number of different tannins and tannin derived components. Some are designed to just enhance color stability, some simply fill out midpalate mouth feel. Only tannins actually designed to increase the perceivable tannin content do so. Those would be added later after you knew your total natural tannin content, compared to the color and mouth feel ones which would be added during primary or cold maceration. Then you have wood tannins in your barrels, chips, dust that can increase tannin and add oak flavor but can also enhance fruity characteristics or smoke. Tannins are nuts as hell.

 

[orto]

When would it be better to add oak to the primary rather than powdered tannin, is the thing I really don't understand.

 

[heatherd]

When would it be better to add oak to the primary rather than powdered tannin, is the thing I really don't understand.

@orto What I do is add powdered oak to primary, then tannin powder and oak spirals to carboy during bulk aging.

 

[orto]

@orto What I do is add powdered oak to primary, then tannin powder and oak spirals to carboy during bulk aging.

The thing is I am not a fan of lots of oak, so I am trying t understand how to make wine taste good without making it taste really oaky.

 

[TonyR]

If you dont like oak but want higher tannin flavor you can just add some tannin powder. I believe it is made mostly from grape seeds and vines. The mouth feel it will impart is a dry pucker you get from a heavy cabernet sauvignon.

 

[cmason1957]

Oak added during the primary, in the form of chips or sawdust doesn't impact much, if any oak flavorings. It does give you tannins which help with color stability mostly.