Syrah/Primitivo Big Day

[Bill McNab]

I pressed the Petite Sirah after work today and net yield was 23 gallons. I think I could have pressed a day earlier but had a work commitment until 9pm. Cap was in danger of collapsing this evening when I pressed. I expect 20 gallons or so after racking off the gross lees tomorrow afternoon. Wine tastes great with great color and nice tannin. After then next rack I hope to have 20 gallons going forward. Just hoping the extra day before press doesn't do any harm.

I'm kind of impressed with this Avante yeast which by specs seems ideal for nearly any red wine. Anyone know of any problems, even theoretical? It's quick, clean, no H2S, ferments to dry with no issues at all.

No pictures since I didn't finish cleaning up until after dark, but my wine making gear like the press, my fermenters etc are cleaned up with PBW, all residues removed and ready for 2019.

 

[Bill McNab]

Hi,
I see a few mentions about Avante red wine yeast, favorable comments.
Can anyone give me a supplier's name that sells the yeast.
I am looking for smaller packages than 500mg, more like a bunch of 5mg or 10 mg packages. Enough for 40 gallons of wine.
Thanks in advance,
Bill.

 

[CDrew]

Lodi Wine Lab will supply smaller amounts. They weighed up 100 grams for me out of a 500 g pouch. Very good people to deal with.

 

[Ajmassa]

Lodi Wine Lab will supply smaller amounts. They weighed up 100 grams for me out of a 500 g pouch. Very good people to deal with.

And to expand on that- they also offer 8gram and 60gram packets on their website.

Nice tasting notes. Also, I may be picking your brain about your thoughts on the Intelitanks in the future.

 

[CDrew]

And to expand on that- they also offer 8gram and 60gram packets on their website.

Nice tasting notes. Also, I may be picking your brain about your thoughts on the Intelitanks in the future.

When I was in there in October they were out of the smaller sizes. They will certainly restock by next summer. But despite that, they didn't blink about opening a bigger brick of yeast and weighing out enough for me. (The same I sent to you). And, BTW, next summer I'm buying a 500 gm brick.

I'd be happy to discuss Intellitanks as I've been gradually collecting the sanitary fittings and hardware to use all the options. So far, I'm using them like 15 gallon unbreakable, space efficient carboys, and have only installed a bottom spout in one of them-Going to use that for blending and bottling. But they are an excellent product and I'm surprised more people don't use them. The 2 significant advantages over a FlexTank is that they are built for vacuum OR pressure racking and they take sanitary (triclamp) fittings which are great to work with. And the same fittings can also be adapted to Sanke Kegs which can be used as 15 gallon storage containers. And since the Intellitanks and Sanke Kegs hold the same volume, it's a nice synergistic way to age and rack wine. Anyway, I like the Intellitanks a lot, and plan to get at least 2 more. They are very easy to handle IF you get the optional handle which I highly recommend.

 

[Bill McNab]

And to expand on that- they also offer 8gram and 60gram packets on their website.

Nice tasting notes. Also, I may be picking your brain about your thoughts on the Intelitanks in the future.

 

[Bill McNab]

Thank you so much for the info on Lodi Wine Lab.
I will contact them this coming fall for yeast and other items.
Y'all are lucky dogs being so close to the source of fine grapes.
Bill.

 

[Chuck E]

I pressed the Petite Sirah after work today and net yield was 23 gallons. I think I could have pressed a day earlier but had a work commitment until 9pm. Cap was in danger of collapsing this evening when I pressed. I expect 20 gallons or so after racking off the gross lees tomorrow afternoon. Wine tastes great with great color and nice tannin. After then next rack I hope to have 20 gallons going forward. Just hoping the extra day before press doesn't do any harm.

I'm kind of impressed with this Avante yeast which by specs seems ideal for nearly any red wine. Anyone know of any problems, even theoretical? It's quick, clean, no H2S, ferments to dry with no issues at all.

No pictures since I didn't finish cleaning up until after dark, but my wine making gear like the press, my fermenters etc are cleaned up with PBW, all residues removed and ready for 2019.

I have been following this thread, but I confused about the steps... You crushed the grapes after harvesting and you pressed the must after fermenting. Do you also press the grapes once before fermenting? When you transfer from the fermenter to the press, do you pump it? I siphoned mine from fermenter to carboy and had lots of trouble with solids clogging.

 

[cmason1957]

Here are two flowcharts for making wine, one for red, one for white, there are just a few differences in the process between the two. These charts came from https://northeastwinemaking.com/pages/general-guide-to-making-wine-from-grapes.

This is the red wine flow. Crush, ferment (with punch-downs/rackings to keep grapes wet while fermenting), then press, malolactic fermentation (which can happen earlier), racking and aging, to filtering (optional) and bottling



This is the White Wine flow. Grapes crushed, nearly immediately pressed, then settled and racked, fermented, possible malolactic fermentation, clearing, racking, filtering (optional), and finally bottling.

 

[CDrew]

I have been following this thread, but I confused about the steps... You crushed the grapes after harvesting and you pressed the must after fermenting. Do you also press the grapes once before fermenting? When you transfer from the fermenter to the press, do you pump it? I siphoned mine from fermenter to carboy and had lots of trouble with solids clogging.

My process is to crush red grapes prior to fermentation, then ferment, then transfer to the press with a sanitized bucket, then press and transfer the pressed new wine to carboys with a sanitized bucket and a big carboy funnel. Within a day or two of that, you should transfer again to get the wine off the gross lees. @cmason1957 's work flow diagrams are good. I can see where you would have problems if you tried to siphon directly out of the fermenter without pressing.

 

[Chuck E]

My process is to crush red grapes prior to fermentation, then ferment, then transfer to the press with a sanitized bucket, then press and transfer the pressed new wine to carboys with a sanitized bucket and a big carboy funnel. Within a day or two of that, you should transfer again to get the wine off the gross lees. @cmason1957 's work flow diagrams are good. I can see where you would have problems if you tried to siphon directly out of the fermenter without pressing.

Thanks for both replies. It makes sense to me now. I have another question. I really enjoy the "Carnivore" brand Zinfandels and Cabs & the Mettler Winery Zinfandels and Cabs. They are both inky black and have a wonderful "mouth feel." I want to have those qualities in the wines I make. While looking at CDrew's pictures it appears that he is going for the same thing. The wine maker notes on those company's web sites lists "cold soaking" as the beginning of their process. Is "cold soaking" the same as extended maceration?

 

[cmason1957]

Cold Soaking happens before fermentation. You get you must all ready to go, then keep it at a very cool temperature for a bit, before fermenting. I have done it, instead of an extended maceration, since I have the capability to put my fermentation buckets into my fridge and I don't have a big mouth kind of fermentation environment I can seal from the air. If you decide to go this way, below 40 F is what you want, colder the better. As a side note, one of the commercial wines I like to drink that is made in Missouri cold ferments, I think they do their ferments at about 45 or 50. The winemaker was quite proud one year that it took almost 2 months to ferment. I would assume they do this in a closed tank, blanketed with some type of inert gas or other.

 

[CDrew]

Thanks for both replies. It makes sense to me now. I have another question. I really enjoy the "Carnivore" brand Zinfandels and Cabs & the Mettler Winery Zinfandels and Cabs. They are both inky black and have a wonderful "mouth feel." I want to have those qualities in the wines I make. While looking at CDrew's pictures it appears that he is going for the same thing. The wine maker notes on those company's web sites lists "cold soaking" as the beginning of their process. Is "cold soaking" the same as extended maceration?

My take is that many Zinfandels are fairly light colored and some wineries even emphasize that style. But really dark ones likely have a really dark wine (often Petite Sirah) blended in to complement the flavor and color. That's what I'm going for.

I also believe the cold soaking and extended maceration are not really practical on a home scale. Too much opportunity for things to go wrong, especially with the extended maceration technique. But the use of Enzymes like Lallazyme EX or EXV kind of give you the best of both worlds. At least in my brief experience, they made a huge difference in color extraction right up front. I also used some fermentation tannin this year (FT Rouge), and I believe that also helps to stabilize color. For sure I am much happier with this year's result than last.

I have 30 gallons of Primitivo (basically Zinfandel) which is enough to experiment with a bit. I'll likely blend 20% Petite Sirah into all of it, and I have already a 6 gallon carboy of 50/50 Primitivo/PS that was made from two 3 gallon left over portions of each. That was kind of accidental, but I am looking forward to how it eventually turns out.

But bottom line-Look hard at Enzyme treatement pre-ferment. Huge difference for a simple addition.

 

[Johnd]

My take is that many Zinfandels are fairly light colored and some wineries even emphasize that style. But really dark ones likely have a really dark wine (often Petite Sirah) blended in to complement the flavor and color. That's what I'm going for.

I also believe the cold soaking and extended maceration are not really practical on a home scale. Too much opportunity for things to go wrong, especially with the extended maceration technique. But the use of Enzymes like Lallazyme EX or EXV kind of give you the best of both worlds. At least in my brief experience, they made a huge difference in color extraction right up front. I also used some fermentation tannin this year (FT Rouge), and I believe that also helps to stabilize color. For sure I am much happier with this year's result than last.

I have 30 gallons of Primitivo (basically Zinfandel) which is enough to experiment with a bit. I'll likely blend 20% Petite Sirah into all of it, and I have already a 6 gallon carboy of 50/50 Primitivo/PS that was made from two 3 gallon left over portions of each. That was kind of accidental, but I am looking forward to how it eventually turns out.

But bottom line-Look hard at Enzyme treatement pre-ferment. Huge difference for a simple addition.

If you have a chance, try a bottle of Turley Zinfandel, it’s a lot of what I didn’t think a zin could be, and is a pure vineyard specific varietal, nothing blended in. Not as heavy as a big cab, but can stand up to some pretty big meals, love it with venison and duck / andouille gumbo.

 

[CDrew]

If you have a chance, try a bottle of Turley Zinfandel, it’s a lot of what I didn’t think a zin could be, and is a pure vineyard specific varietal, nothing blended in. Not as heavy as a big cab, but can stand up to some pretty big meals, love it with venison and duck / andouille gumbo.

Will do. I drive by Turley's Amador operation at least once per month and will stop in next time through (which may be Sunday if my wife doesn't have other plans).

 

[Chuck E]

My take is that many Zinfandels are fairly light colored and some wineries even emphasize that style. But really dark ones likely have a really dark wine (often Petite Sirah) blended in to complement the flavor and color. That's what I'm going for.

I also believe the cold soaking and extended maceration are not really practical on a home scale. Too much opportunity for things to go wrong, especially with the extended maceration technique. But the use of Enzymes like Lallazyme EX or EXV kind of give you the best of both worlds. At least in my brief experience, they made a huge difference in color extraction right up front. I also used some fermentation tannin this year (FT Rouge), and I believe that also helps to stabilize color. For sure I am much happier with this year's result than last.

I have 30 gallons of Primitivo (basically Zinfandel) which is enough to experiment with a bit. I'll likely blend 20% Petite Sirah into all of it, and I have already a 6 gallon carboy of 50/50 Primitivo/PS that was made from two 3 gallon left over portions of each. That was kind of accidental, but I am looking forward to how it eventually turns out.

But bottom line-Look hard at Enzyme treatement pre-ferment. Huge difference for a simple addition.

Can I ask ask about your grape prep?
Do you wash the grapes before crushing? Do you treat the crush with KMeta before inoculating?

 

[CDrew]

Can I ask ask about your grape prep?
Do you wash the grapes before crushing? Do you treat the crush with KMeta before inoculating?

No washing. That's generally considered a bad idea. Pick and then stem/crush.

Not that I am an expert, but yes, I sulfite the crush 40ppm (estimated), mix really well, then add enzymes, mix well, let sit overnight, then the following morning, inoculate with yeast. So I guess I do an unintentional overnight "cold soak" (more of a cool soak) while the enzymes do their thing.

 

[CDrew]

 

[CDrew]

Finally finished cleaning up, so here the story of the picture above.

The goal today was to figure out all the sanitary fittings to vacuum rack into the empty Sanke Kegs, which will basically be stainless aging tanks to bulk age until bottling. All 4 of my Intellitanks were in use, so the Kegs made a sanitary and airtight place to store some wine. So with a t fitting and the IntelliTank racking cane and it's extension, it is possible to do a clean and sanitary rack using only sanitary fittings which are so nice to use. No rubber bungs needed! So after everything including all the fittings and gaskets was sanitized with StarSan it was time to move some wine.

I moved the wine to the utility room to get a bit of working room and to have all easy to clean surfaces. Even vacuum racking, you still have a few drips of wine that spill here and there.

First step was to purge the Sanke kegs with CO2. With the fittings and valves this is easy. Possibly un-needed but I wanted to play with all the toys. Once they were full of CO2, it's only a matter of trading 2 hoses and turn on the vacuum pump. Once it established a vacuum all went as expected. I blended about 10% Petite Sirah into the Primitivo after a quick taste of the mix. The oak is evident now, so I hope it fades a bit over time. I was able to recover all the oak cubes for use in the smoker-thanks for that tip! There was still a whole lot of dissolved CO2 in the wine, more than I expected. I'm not sure how fast that's going to dissipate. I won't be bottling until August, so it has time.

In the end, I racked 31 gallons of the primitivo into 2 Sanke kegs. And the nice part is, they are not only air tight they are also light tight and so do not need to stay in the closet in the wine room. I have the heat turned off to that room and it says about 60F so they can just hang out against the wall.

And one other thing. At the end I still had about 3 gallons in one of the intellitanks. I used the same set up to put the racking cane in the Intellitank, and then the CO2 to pressure rack the final 3 gallons into a carboy. The CO2 works great for moving the win around at low pressure. I thought that was really cool.

I'll try and edit with more pictures. If anyone wants details about IntelliTanks (great product BTW) or using Sanke 15.5 gallon beer kegs, or using Sanitary fittings, please post up.

 

[CDrew]

The pics are not the greatest but the best I could do with the bad lighting.