RJ Spagnols Super Tuscans: En Primeur versus Winery Series

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Geronimo

Norges Skaal!
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My RJS En Primeur just dropped to 0.996 so I taste tested it and I was a little shocked! I expected a slightly upgraded version of the Winery Series kit. WRONG!! It's quite a bit different IMO. Hard to tell which one I'll end up liking better at this early stage, but I can say that both are VERY good!
 
It will be nice to know how these two compare. It could be a completely different 'Super Tuscan' style blend compared to the WS kit. Course, we'd never know because it's proprietary.
 
I'm glad to read that you found both were "VERY good". I've got the WS in "secondary" and looking forward to tasting a finish and matured Super Tuscan.

BTW, I paid $125.00 for the kit from my LHBS. What is the approximate premium paid for the EP kit?

Thanks...
 
I get them at finevinewines.com, $135 and $144 respectively.

My guess is that the difference is one grape. The Winery series Super Tuscan has a flavor that's very prominent in the Winery series Amarone. I can't detect that flavor at all in the En Primeur Super Tuscan.
 
I have the EP Super Tuscan, whose SG I have to check when I get home.
I am in secondary now, have been for atleast 2 weeks.

Althought I have learned my lesson from tasting shortly after Ferm is done!
It is always a dissappointment until atleast a year out!
 
My RJS En Primeur just dropped to 0.996 so I taste tested it and I was a little shocked! I expected a slightly upgraded version of the Winery Series kit. WRONG!! It's quite a bit different IMO. Hard to tell which one I'll end up liking better at this early stage, but I can say that both are VERY good!

Geronimo,

Different how? I have made the winery series two years in a row, and will be starting the third in a month or so. Before I purchase I'd love to know what the differences are even if they are a bit subjective.
 
Geronimo,

Different how? I have made the winery series two years in a row, and will be starting the third in a month or so. Before I purchase I'd love to know what the differences are even if they are a bit subjective.

The winery series has a predominant flavor of a grape that I'm unsure of, and while it's very tasty it's also unique to the Super Tuscans I've tasted. The EP Super Tuscan is much more like most of the Super Tuscans (both commercial and kits).

Since the designation "Super Tuscan" can mean anything to anyone, there isn't a right or wrong answer for the blend.

Just a quick side note: the RJS WS Amarone has the same predominant flavor that the WS Super Tuscan has. Amarone is supposed to be mostly Corvina (60%) and Rondinella (30%) grapes. My guess is that one of those 2 grapes is blended in the WS Super Tuscan and not in the EP version. I hope that helps!!
 
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The winery series has a predominant flavor of a grape that I'm unsure of, and while it's very tasty it's also unique to the Super Tuscans I've tasted. The EP Super Tuscan is much more like most of the Super Tuscans (both commercial and kits).

Since the designation "Super Tuscan" can mean anything to anyone, there isn't a right or wrong answer for the blend.

Just a quick side note: the RJS WS Amarone has the same predominant flavor that the WS Super Tuscan has. Amarone is supposed to be mostly Corvina (60%) and Rondinella (30%) grapes. My guess is that one of those 2 grapes is blended in the WS Super Tuscan and not in the EP version. I hope that helps!!
Thanks appreciate the feedback, I was 90% sure I was doing the EP, now I'm 100% convinced.
 
I just want to reiterate, they are both VERY good! Wade (the forum admin) puts the Winery Series Super Tuscan at (or near) the very top of his list!
 
I'm not sure, it comes in 2 tea bags that you just drop into primary.
 
I just want to reiterate, they are both VERY good! Wade (the forum admin) puts the Winery Series Super Tuscan at (or near) the very top of his list!

Yes agree, don't mistake my comment, I just meant that I had wanted to do the EP this year, but was on the fence because the WS ST has been so good, just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting the extra dollars on the EP
 
First of all, let me state that I love "Super Tuscan" wines. I have made kits of this wine and my own blends including some, but not necessarily all, of the following varieties: Sangiovese (of course), Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. There is no set blend of wines that make up a Super Tuscan although the wine usually has a dominance of Sangiovese and this stems from the way the wine was developed. It all started with Chianti DOC and DOGC, which by Italian law must contain at least 70% Sangiovese. If wine producers did not have that amount of Sangiovese, they had to designate the wine vino da tavola (table wine) which has a lesser connotation. In order to make the wine more attractive from a marketing standpoint, they started calling the wine Super Tuscan and this, being a very good tasting wine, just not Chianti, became very popular. Due to its popularity, producers began to experiment with other varieties to make up "the remainder," i.e. the part that was not Sangiovese, of the Super Tuscan. That was when Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot were introduced to the blend. Soon, vineyards in Italy were planted with these two French varieties and they flourished in the Italian terroir. These varieties in large part are replacing the locally grown Italian components of Super Tuscan.

What all this means is that the taste of a Super Tuscan can vary due a. the varieties used in the wine, b. the amounts of each variety and c. the vintages from year to year. Therefore, it is difficult to say that one Super Tuscan is "better" that another. As in all wines, it is a matter of taste and what is "better" to one person may not be to another.
 
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Thanks for the info, nice to be able to have better understanding of what I am making.

Took a sip of the super Tuscan last night. While it is at an SG of 1.000, it was green, but had a great oaky taste to it.
I was impressed and look forward to drinking a bottle next year!
 
All this talk of Super Tuscans made me realize I've never done a Super Tuscan kit. I ended up ordering the EP Super Tuscan. I've also never done an EP kit before, so it should be interesting. I'm sure at some point I will do the WS Super Tuscan, too.
 
Just bottled my WS super tuscan after 7 months in bulk aging today. Sampled the left over glass and its a very nice wine. Al ittle bit grapey at this point with a perception of slight residual sweetness but a nice pleasantness to it. I'm sure another 7 months in the bottle will smooth it out nicely!.

I really enjoyed the cellar craft rosso fortissimo( super tuscan style) i might have to pull the trigger on the En Premiur
 
I really enjoyed the cellar craft rosso fortissimo( super tuscan style) i might have to pull the trigger on the En Premiur

IMO the EP ST is a lot like the Rosso Fortissimo. The flavors you describe in the WS ST (grapey and sweet without sugariness) are the signature flavors of that kit.

Also, the EP kit uses the tea bags for oaking and the Genuwine dried skins, so it's easily one of the easiest kits I've ever made.
 

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