Successful first attempt at paper chromatography

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DaveMcC

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First time out with a MLF chromatograph. Worked very well and gave me the information I needed; M1, M2 (malbec) and C (cab sav) finished, zinfandel 1 and 2 still in process.

20210115_102547.jpg
 

Ajmassa

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Really nice work! my first one looked a damn train wreck.

Personally i like to do an early test to compare to. Hopefully the zin is progressing slower instead of failing to start at all. Won’t know for sure until a 2nd test is done in a bit. (unless you’ve got visual confirmation)
 

DaveMcC

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Thanks. I'm hoping that the zin is in process. I will retest in another week or so. What's a good target time between tests? 2? 3 weeks?
 
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Trevisan

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What is the shelf life of the acid base samples and the chromatographic developer? My supply is from 12 months ago. I ran a test and the base samples didn't register on the paper. The wine results showed a low, even level (row) of "spots" and nothing else. ???
 

DaveMcC

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The developer will last at least a couple of years if stored away from light, heat and air. Most labs make their own standard samples from dry chemicals and DI water as needed. The dry chemicals can be stored and last a long time. I would think the standard samples, once opened, are maybe good for a year. If your developer was left in a larger open container, or exposed to heat and light, then it may have lost its potency.
 

DaveMcC

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hounddawg.. thank you for that, I guess. Not sure what that has to do with the topic of this thread. If you mean by this that paper chromatograpy is too complex for you to bother with, I can assure you it is not and would be happy to teach what I know.
D
 

hounddawg

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hounddawg.. thank you for that, I guess. Not sure what that has to do with the topic of this thread. If you mean by this that paper chromatograpy is too complex for you to bother with, I can assure you it is not and would be happy to teach what I know.
D
oh no, First off I meant no offence, nor was i being condescending at all,
ok i looked to see your start date just now, most on here know i ain't right,, , I am bad to joke around, and i go as privative as i can,,, but,, i did start here to lean how to make it easier on me, chemicals, vacuum pump so on so forth, and i read about traditional
wines, and am honestly in aw of what the science, math knowledge it takes, and a whole lot more,
when i was much younger, i learnt from the very old timers, no hydrometers,, really not much of nothing, wine was in gallon jugs and put under the house ,, the scuttle hole was to the right was this years until you came to a small rock or stick,, then you was in the two year stuff, so on so forth till you came back to the scuttle hole ,,, so when you stuck your head in to the left was the oldest, and too the right was the youngest, with a stick or rock marking each year as a divider, I hope I have articulated this so you know , that I did not mean anything by it, if i had noticed you was new to this forum, Id not joked,,, in short I'm a idiot that don's know when to keep my mouth shut, life's crazy and stress is high, so i just try to make someone smile,,
Richard AKA Dawg
 

DaveMcC

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Hey brother.. it's all good. We're all idiots in some respect or another. Your scuttle hole/gallon wine story has my curiosity up. My grandma Lucille (yes, I am in South Carolina brother), told me a story once about how when she was young they would make a "beer" out of persimmons with honey locust pods and hay on top in an old butter churn. The whole community would turn out to drink, young and old alike. Must have been some kind of fun, right? She was born in 1909. Passed in 2012. I've got about what I figure is about a gallon's worth of persimmons frozen from this year's harvest. I'm right inspired to give her recipe a try.
 

hounddawg

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Hey brother.. it's all good. We're all idiots in some respect or another. Your scuttle hole/gallon wine story has my curiosity up. My grandma Lucille (yes, I am in South Carolina brother), told me a story once about how when she was young they would make a "beer" out of persimmons with honey locust pods and hay on top in an old butter churn. The whole community would turn out to drink, young and old alike. Must have been some kind of fun, right? She was born in 1909. Passed in 2012. I've got about what I figure is about a gallon's worth of persimmons frozen from this year's harvest. I'm right inspired to give her recipe a try.
God bless her, you just took me back many years, here in the Ozarks, um spirts were good way back when, they (the old timers) made wine their were 3 main types, dandelion, elderberry, and muscadine,
i loved the latter 2, but the beer i swear every secret recipe , and there were as many as their were those that made it, was exactly the same, tasted like pure bread yeast, oh my, every one was the same horrible, although you never told them that nor said it to anyone else, them old boy's and ladies were mighty proud of their beer, that is why i never tried to make beer, and yes away from my neck of the woods there was good beer, but that was later on,, when i was older, by then I had been traumatized for life,, lol ,, i seen and drank, beer in sheds, barns, outta nasty barrels or anything that would hold liquid, thankfully those that made beer just made beer, as the wine makers made wine and so on, i learned to not visit those that made beer,, only here and it was way back then, now I've tasted great beer from others later, the only thing i never figured out was,,, with that many secret recipes, how did they all tasted like they all came from the same boot,,, lol ,,
Dawg
 

DaveMcC

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Really nice work! my first one looked a damn train wreck.

Personally i like to do an early test to compare to. Hopefully the zin is progressing slower instead of failing to start at all. Won’t know for sure until a 2nd test is done in a bit. (unless you’ve got visual confirmation)
I've done a second paper chromatograph test and confirmed that the zinfandel did NOT go through MLF, even though I pitched the MLB from the same package at the same time as my other 5 batches, which all completed MLF. Can I, or should I try again? I have some MLB culture and Opti-Malo Plus nutrient. Any harm in trying that? Thanks, input appreciated.

Dave
 

Jay A

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Dave, what temp is the zin? If under 70*, consider getting to 70-72*. I was ready to re-innoculate a stubborn Cab a couple of years ago when it kicked off with warmer temps.
 

DaveMcC

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It has been around 70 to 72 degrees for a few weeks in a heated space. I went ahead and innoculated today and will keep it at around mid 70s for a couple more weeks. I didn't think about waiting until warmer temps, but that is not likely around here for a few to several more weeks. I think patience is my best friend at this point. Thanks for the reply. The wines were really high pH also. After MLF in the malbec and cabernet S. I had pH readings of 4.16 and 3.98 respectively. I added some tartaric to the malbec, which I maybe overshot a bit. Hoping it smooths out with time.
 

Jay A

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That"s some high pH, tartaric should help out. Pretty sure most MLF cultures have low limits for pH, not sure of upper limits. Some of my zin's have been high in alcohol. Some cultures have their limits as well. Good luck, keep posted
 

DaveMcC

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Yeah, needed to have adjusted that in the must, but didn't. Won't make that mistake again. The culture I used for the MLF has a wide tolerance range for pH and temperature, so I should be OK. Alcohol is around 13.5% so I should be OK on that score. We'll see.
 

DaveMcC

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I did a separate post but related to this thread. MLF still not happening (chromatograph confirmed). Last post was 2/8 when I re-innoculated 2nd time. It's only been 5 weeks. Temps have been around 70 to 74 on the Zin in question. Wait longer, or re-innoculate is the question. pH is still high (3.89). No SO2 added so far.
 

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