Stuck fermentation update

[Siwash]

I pressed last night. This morning I have the same reading.. no further fermentation. I know this is going to sound like a lazy man's approach - I yielded 7 carboys of 5 gallons. I actually have 7 packets of EC1118 (5 grams each) that the package states is intended for up to 6 gallons. Can I just add one of each 5g packet to each carboy (along with the appropriate amount of GoFerm)? Again, I know it sounds like I am cutting corners, but as I've stated earlier, I am really pressed for time these days due to work and family constraints. Is there any negative fallout/consequence for this simple method? What happens to any yeast that didn't ferment? Will it just fall to the bottom? Am I assured of getting it going again? I am thinking of doing this and turning up temp to 75 (It's all sitting in my cool 65 F basement now). Keep in mind that I intend to do an MLF starting this weekend so that has to be taken into consideration - I still have to rack off the main lees before I begin that... maybe sunday? and between tonight and Sunday morning, maybe I can finish off this damn fermentation!!

thanks so much for everyone's help... I am feeling pretty discouraged by all of this so I appreciate the input.

 

[Ajmassa]

What was your starting SG

 

[Siwash]

1.099 or1.100 - really hard to tell exactly when you first measure due to all the thick, syruppy must - and it stopped at 1.003.

Actually, looking at the photo of it again, it stopped at more like 1.006 or 07

 

[Smok1]

With your sg being so low now i dont think ec1118 will start up without taking some time to make a good starter, the conditions for the yeast are not optimal when most of the sugar is gone, if you dont get a proper starter going most likely the yeast wont take off at all or it may get stressed and give some off flavors.

 

[stickman]

I actually have 7 packets of EC1118 (5 grams each) that the package states is intended for up to 6 gallons. Can I just add one of each 5g packet to each carboy (along with the appropriate amount of GoFerm)?

It is rarely a good idea to experiment with the entire batch. I think the chances for success are slim, but if you really want to to try this, just do it with one carboy, if it works, great, if not you still have yeast left for other options. If it were me, I would be making a gallon starter at the same time, maybe half and half stuck wine and store bought grape juice like Welches no preservatives, add nutrients to the starter and rehydrate with Go-ferm and pitch the EC1118 to the starter, most likely you'll see activity in a matter of hours, use the build up process as others have already suggested.

Just my opinion, but moving ahead with ML is not a good idea. Get the AF finished first.

There are many restart procedures posted, nearly all are based on the build-up method and also employ yeast hulls. These are published by people that have been through this before.

View attachment Restarting Stuck Fermentation.pdf

 

[Siwash]

thanks guys... so whats my window? my carboys are sitting here with airlocks... no kmeta yet since i want to do an mlf

should i start asap

 

[Ajmassa]

I wouldn't sweat not having K-meta. You could not do anything for weeks and nothing would change.
I do think however that keeping the gross lees in there right now might be beneficial for when you attempt the yeast starter.
Definitely throw away any "schedule" you had for this wine right now. You should do an MLF when it's ready- and who knows when that'll be.
Remember I'm kinda in the thick of this with you. 1.100-1.000. 13.13%abv to your 12.73%. - which doesn't sound so bad. But those last 2 replies are both saying you'll need to do that starter properly. Which likely would mean being at home with your wine and working on it through the bulk of the day. Adding a pack of EC1118 to each carboy woulda just made this process too easy anyway.
I'm dreading this yeast starter for my 25 gal total of wine that needs it. Im anticipating to fumble around with jugs and buckets and yeast and spilled wine and watching and adding and waiting and watching and adding etc... hoping all that work isn't for nothing.
And now I'm contemplating whether the 1.000 I've got is good enough

 

[Ajmassa]

Just got done checking the wine and getting all my extra odd sized amounts out of the fridge and into appropriate jugs, jars and bottles. I'm at 1.001.
After tasting I decided that I can't decide! So freakin difficult to tell what to do. But with my
MLF finished and my high ph I'm going to adjust acid 1st. Then in a week I'll re-evaluate. And by that point you'll have posted how successful you were giving me more confidence to go for it

 

[Siwash]

I have 7 carboys @ 5 Gallons right now. Should I work on each one individually (make a starter for each) or can I make one single water/wine starter and add it to each carboy? This would speed up the process... I could work with total volume of 7 carboys when factoring in amounts of yeast/nutrients to add... Not sure of this would would work?!

 

[Siwash]

From Scott Lab:

In another clean container mix equal volumes of stuck wine and water. Generally this would total 2% of the total wine volume. (Example: For 1000 gal of stuck wine, use 10 gal water + 10 gal wine.) This container will be the “Mother Restart Tank”.

So I have about 135 L (35 gallons) - that would be a total of 2.7 L. So mix 1.35 L of wine and equal parts water... then go from there to create a starter for the entire batch even though they are all separate containers?

Sorry for all the questions - i have never done this before and I am really worried I am going to mess this up

 

[stickman]

Yes, that seems correct to me, it can be larger if desired, but the ratio needs to be the same, so don't exceed 50% stuck wine. It might seem complicated, but you are really just making a small batch of wine. Keep in mind what the big picture is; you are just diluting the contaminants of the stuck wine to allow the yeast to grow under more favorable conditions first, and then become acclimated gradually to the contaminants and harsh conditions that will follow.

 

[Siwash]

I am seriously considering racking into two 54L demis... this would make it easier to work with in theory... or should i just work with the 7 carboys and make the one concoction for all of the vessels? Someone mentioned that the gross lees might be beneficial at this stage.. not sure about that

So if working with 7 carboys, should I make this one starter batch in a gallon then simply add to each vessel? How much (ml) should i add to each? this is why I am thinking of working with two demis instead of 7 carboys... easier to work with the two in theory.

 

[stickman]

You have to add the stuck wine to the starter in increments, so once the starter gets going you should transfer it to a vessel large enough to begin accepting the additions of stuck wine, the demi will be great. If your starter is 2.7 L, then your first addition will be 2.7 L of stuck wine, once it is actively fermenting the next addition will be around 5 L, once fermenting the next will be 10 L, then 20 then 40 L etc. Below is taken from the restart procedure I posted earlier.

Meter the Stuck Wine into the Starter
The yeast will begin building a strong population quickly in the friendly environment of the Starter. Monitor the Brix of the Starter with a hydrometer. When the Brix have dropped by half (to about 2.5 Brix), then the yeast are ready to take on the stuck wine in slow increments.
◊ Begin by adding a volume of stuck wine equal to the volume of the starter. Once again, temperature acclimation is critical. If the stuck wine and starter are more than 10°F apart, incrementally add small amounts of stuck wine in order to equilibrate the temperatures. Note also that your goal is to keep the fermentation running in the range of 65-75°F.
◊ After each addition, wait for a sign of renewed fermentation activity (either by hydrometer or just visually) and then double the volume again by adding more stuck wine. All the stuck wine is eventually metered into the fermentation in this manner.

 

[Ajmassa]

That was the thought that I had. To use larger vessels. I saw like this- starting with the small amount and keep doubling and doubling until it's a whole 5 gallon carboy going. Then double to two 5 gallon carboy going. Then put 5 gallons in a demijohn and add the 10 gallon starter to the demijohn.
With a whole demijohn goin you could fill another halfway with from the first. Then fill it the rest of the way with stuck wine. And refill the original demi with the rest of the stuck wine. Ending up with 2 full demijohns going.
But that gets you to 28 gal not 35. So maybe fill some carboys with half stuck wine and half starter wine accordingly till it's all goin??!!!!
Just spitballing here. The gross lees thing was just a thought. I don't actually know if it would help or not

 

[Ajmassa]

How you makin out?

 

[Siwash]

This is what I did yesterdya afternoon... the starters are starting to ferment in mason jars right now! It's from http://blog.eckraus.com/making-a-wine-yeast-starter-to-restart-a-stuck-fermentation

How To Make A Wine Yeast Starter

For restarting 5 or 6 gallons, take a quart jar and fill it half way with the wine in question. Add to that, water until the jar is 2/3 full. Put in the mix a 1/4 teaspoon of yeast nutrient, and 3 tablespoons of sugar. Be sure that the sugar becomes completely dissolve. Now you can add a whole packet of the Champagne yeast. Cover the jar with a paper towel and secure with a rubber band.

Put the starter in a cozy spot at 70° to 75°F. You should see some activity within 12 to 18 hours. You will want to pitch the wine starter into the stuck fermentation right after you see the level of foaming in the jar peak. This will usually be around 1-1/2 to 2 days. Be sure to swirl the jar to add all the sediment in the starter to the wine must, as well.

 

[Ajmassa]

That's the exact process I used on my first attempt. Never got it to foam though. Good luck

 

[Siwash]

That's the exact process I used on my first attempt. Never got it to foam though. Good luck

And so you ddin't bother trying it in your main batch?

I am finding the same thing is happening.. just fizzing a bit right now so some C02 being produced... If it doesn't foam is it useless to pitch? It won't restart? Well, if that't the case, I'll be starting an MLF and living with what I got... oh well.. I'm sure it'll be fine..

Looks like I'll be racking off the gross lees tomorrow and getting that MLF going.

This won't happen again if I can help it...

 

[Ajmassa]

Yea. I attempted it on my juice bucket which stopped dropping before the grape batch stopped.
Went through that same process you posted, and after a day even added more sugar. And then some more stuck wine a lol while later. I could hear some co2 but that's about it. Never had actual "noticeable activity". Don't know why. But I just racked and proceeded as is.
Had 2 quarts of extra sweet yeast smelling stuck wine that I dumped.
Since you had exactly the same thing just happen I'm wondering if there's something we just missed or was it something beyond our control.
But if getting it to ferment dry is indeed out of the question, my original thought was to do some test trials with Everclear to bump abv and make a last ditch effort to get a fully dry feel. But I have no clue if there's any validity to that thought process.

 

[stickman]

If co2 is being produced then it is fermenting, that's what you want, you may never reach the high level of foam due to the contaminants from the stuck wine. Let it ferment a while and then double the volume with stuck wine, and wait until it starts to ferment again, that's how to proceed.