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Rocky

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Years ago, I read a great book by Edwin Newman entitled "Strictly Speaking" and sub-titled "Will American Be the Death of English." It was humorous and light reading and it underscored how we in America, including the media, misuse the English language. Since reading this book, I have become more attuned to what people say as opposed to what they mean and find much of it humorous.

An example occurred today at the UPS store where a customer was returning two items to Amazon. The clerk asked her, "Are both items identical?" and the question amused me. I thought to myself, "No, only one of the items is identical. The other one is different."

I see such occurrences daily on TV and in print. I was wondering if there are any other pedants out there and if they had some examples.
 
Not sure if it is along the lines you are thinking or not, but seen, Oh My this one drives me CRAZY.

I seen it the other day..

You didn't seen shit. Seen is the past participle of see. You saw it, you have (past tense) seen it, but you certainly didn't seen it. I could go on and on, but I believe my point is made and I don't want to get stuck on it.😉

Thank you, Rocky. I obviously really needed to get that one off my chest. 😄

I also find it strange how words will change meaning from one generation to the next. Amateur is a good example. To me it is derogatory. Inexperienced, lacking skill in your art or trade. "He needs to give that up, what an amateur!" The actual definition is someone who is inspired by many things, has a deep passion for, and knowledge of many disciplines. It sounds like a very respectable thing to me excluding today's current uses..

Heretic is another one. Even in modern dictionaries the description is derogatory. Someone who has an opinion that is opposite to or against the official or popular opinion.

The original meaning of the word was seeker of truth. Not a bad thing by any stretch, but when one shapes their own opinion instead of adhering to the popular view point they are a heretic. I have been taught to look at the word as someone that brings information to intentionally weaken an institution out of spite, not a broader interest in understanding.
 
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Thank you, I also find it strange how words will change meaning from one generation to the next. Amateur is a good example. To me it is derogatory. Inexperienced, lacking skill in your art or trade. "He needs to give that up, what an amateur!" The actual definition is someone who is inspired by many things, has a deep passion for, and knowledge of, many disciplines. It sounds like a very respectable thing to me excluding today's current uses.
Vinny, along the lines of words whose meaning have evolved, I have always wondered at the term "up tight." When I was in my early 20's, about 60 years ago, "up tight" was a positive term. There was a song containing the lyrics, "Everything is all right, uptight, out of sight." Somewhere along the way, it came to mean tense, jittery, nervous, angry and annoyed.
 
A peeve of mine is the use of the subjective-case pronoun "I" as the object of a preposition when there are two or more people involved. As in:

*Would you like to go to the movies with Derek and I?
*The coach gave the can of tennis balls to Ashley and I.

But, yes, words do change meaning, and acceptable usage changes with time. I suspect that someday, some grade-school teacher will be patiently instructing her pupils that one uses "me" if you are the only person, and one uses "I" if there is more than one person.
 
A peeve of mine is the use of the subjective-case pronoun "I" as the object of a preposition
I do believe that this might be the first indicator of a true pedant. One who can explain the reason that your use of a subjective-case pronoun as the object of a preposition is incorrect, as opposed to the simpler explanation that you should use I instead of me.

There is no time in my life other than when I am explaining that seen is the past participle of see and must be used with have, had, has to demonstrate correct past tense that the knowledge comes in handy. However they wouldn't call it past perfect tense if it wasn't as it should be, so I shall continue my work to edify the masses. 😄

I find that typing and sharing quick thoughts online has worsened my grammar, spelling, and punctuation. I catch myself (most of the time, Paul...) replacing are and our, your and you're when blurting out a quick reply. We have all seen the nearly unreadable text style posts without a lick of punctuation. I expect it will only get much worse.

The next generation may only be able to communicate in emoji's. Modern day hieroglyphs?
 
Vinny, along the lines of words whose meaning have evolved, I have always wondered at the term "up tight." When I was in my early 20's, about 60 years ago, "up tight" was a positive term. There was a song containing the lyrics, "Everything is all right, uptight, out of sight." Somewhere along the way, it came to mean tense, jittery, nervous, angry and annoyed.

Hmmm, the OED seems to think that these two meanings are roughly the same age (excepting the isolated 1934 quotation favoring "nervous" as older):

uptight, adj.​


Quotations:


Etymology:
colloquial and slang (originally U.S.).
1.


a. Of a person: in a state of nervous tension or anxiety; inhibited, worried, ‘on edge’; angry, ‘worked up’ (about something). Quot. 1934 is an isolated early example.
1934 J. M. Cain Postman always rings Twice xvi. 186 I'm getting up tight now, and I've been thinking about Cora. Do you think she knows I didn't do it?
1966 Sunday Times 13 Feb. (Colour Suppl.) 35/4 Up tight, tense.
1968 Mad lxxvii. 30 ‘Uptight’ means, like, a bad scene. It's when you're hung up, or wigged out, or you can't make it. We all get ‘uptight’ once in a while.
1969 C. Young Todd Dossier 38 He looked worried. Really worried. As the kids say, he was up-tight.
1973 E. Caldwell Annette (1974) vi. ii. 137 I'd guess you'd gotten so uptight from being denied motherhood that you were ready to leave home.
1975 D. Lodge Changing Places ii. 83 You're feeling all cold and uptight and wishing you hadn't come.
1977 M. Edelman Polit. Lang. v. 90 To the uptight policeman everyone is a potential offender.
1981 P. P. Read Villa Golitsyn ii. iv. 112 I was afraid you might be a little uptight about that sort of thing.



b. figurative. Characteristically formal in manner or style; correct, strait-laced.
1969 Manch. Guardian Weekly 28 Aug. 18 Who would have thought that an uptight institution like the august Oxford University Press would have done a thing like this? Here is a..spirited and spiritous piece of autobiography..served up as a book.
1970 E. M. Brecher Sex Researchers ix. 253 They tended to swing in the same socially correct, formal, ‘up-tight’ style they followed in their other activities.
1976 Chatelaine (Montreal) Jan. 73/3 In the morning, the apartment looked curiously uptight to Meredith.




2. In approbation: that reaches the desired standard; excellent, fine.
1962 Down Beat Aug. 20/2 Jazz Gene Ammons Up Tight!
1966 Surfer 7 iv. 11 The waves are a perfection 10 to 15 feet and straight over. Really up tight and out of sight!
1969 Courier-Mail (Brisbane) 31 May 11/7 Disc jockeys..talk in a kind of sub-English..as in ‘All right baby sock-it-to-me it's allright uptight yeah.’


3. Short or out of money; ‘broke’.
1967 Time 6 Jan. 18/3 ‘Up tight’ can mean anxious, emotionally involved or broke.
1968 Esquire Apr. 160/3 The expression ‘uptight’, which meant being in financial straits, appeared on the soul scene in the general vicinity of 1953.
 
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Heretic is another one. Even in modern dictionaries the description is derogatory. Someone who has an opinion that is opposite to or against the official or popular opinion.

The original meaning of the word was seeker of truth. Not a bad thing by any stretch, but when one shapes their own opinion instead of adhering to the popular view point they are a heretic. I have been taught to look at the word as someone that brings information to intentionally weaken an institution out of spite, not a broader interest in understanding.

I have never seen "heretic" used or defined in the sense you say ("seeker of truth"). I would love to see a pointer to that meaning, if it is handy.

The etymology is from Greek for "able to chose" (and evidently chose wrongly, according to the labeler! :) ). But the OED does not list the sense you mentioned, and the sense of "holder of non-doctrinal opinion" dates from the 14th century.
 
This would be a good place to share a cherished quotation:

"Pedantry and mastery are opposite attitudes toward rules. To apply a rule to the letter, rigidly, unquestioningly, in cases where it fits and in cases where it does not fit, is pedantry ... To apply a rule with natural ease, with judgment, noticing the cases where it fits, and without ever letting the words of the rule obscure the purpose of the action or the opportunities of the situation, is mastery." -George Polya, mathematician (1887-1985)
 
I have never seen "heretic" used or defined in the sense you say ("seeker of truth"). I would love to see a pointer to that meaning, if it is handy.
I really wish I could dig it up, this is going back some years. I admit that I used a very definitive statement where the source was stating that the meaning would be more accurately defined as a seeker of truth than as opposition. It was noted that historically the word had a positive connotation. Though because the church labelled anyone questioning doctrine as a heretic, the word went from a person weighing information and looking for understanding to one that simply dismissed 'truth'. They should be ignored because they are nothing more than a heretic.

The Greek 'able to choose' lends to the point. Without multiple view points one cannot choose. We are also not likely to be offered differing views of a popular or commonly held opinion without seeking them.

Unfortunately, I searched for a trail to jog my memory and ended up with the same as you. Sadly, leaving my statement quite decidedly... heretical.
 
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I also shudder at the use of "I" instead of "me" as well as the "seen" statement. Another huge pet peeve of mine is the misuse of apostrophes. Sooo many apostrophes! I would almost rather people do not use them at all than add them to every stinking plural word as they seem to do. Store signs and names and texts and emails and family names on Christmas cards ...

My theory is that the use of "I" is in response to people being told to use it in place of "me and Jimmy went to the store" and they never figured out the difference between the subject and object of a sentence.

As for the apostrophe epidemic... no idea. Maybe people always got these wrong but social media and texting brought it out so I actually can SEE that my high school classmates didn't pay attention in school, according to how they write on Facebook anyway.
 
I also shudder at the use of "I" instead of "me" as well as the "seen" statement. Another huge pet peeve of mine is the misuse of apostrophes. Sooo many apostrophes! I would almost rather people do not use them at all than add them to every stinking plural word as they seem to do. Store signs and names and texts and emails and family names on Christmas cards ...

Ahh, yes, the "greengrocer's apostrophe." (See, e.g., The Greengrocer's Apostrophe .) I hate it. Of course, it is further maddening that there are times when using an apostrophe to form a plural is preferred. :slp Ain't nothing easy!


My theory is that the use of "I" is in response to people being told to use it in place of "me and Jimmy went to the store" and they never figured out the difference between the subject and object of a sentence.

Yup. Your theory is correct, AFAIK. It goes by the name of "hypercorrection." (Hypercorrection - Wikipedia )
 
Years ago, I read a great book by Edwin Newman entitled "Strictly Speaking" and sub-titled "Will American Be the Death of English." It was humorous and light reading and it underscored how we in America, including the media, misuse the English language. Since reading this book, I have become more attuned to what people say as opposed to what they mean and find much of it humorous.

An example occurred today at the UPS store where a customer was returning two items to Amazon. The clerk asked her, "Are both items identical?" and the question amused me. I thought to myself, "No, only one of the items is identical. The other one is different."

I see such occurrences daily on TV and in print. I was wondering if there are any other pedants out there and if they had some examples.
I used to hate going to Union meetings where the favourite saying was; " At this moment in time". Why the hell couldn't they say "Now".
As for Americans not speaking proper English, even the English don't speak English properly.
Of course, being a Yorkshire man, I speak the Kings English tha knows.
 

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