Quantcast

South African Cab Sauv

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
Hi all, we picked up 120 lbs(6 lugs) of South African Cab Sauv grapes today from South Jersey Dist.. Wanted Pinotage but didn't reserve them early enough. The grapes look and taste great. Crushed earlier, temp is around 45f right now. Haven't checked ph, brix, etc yet waiting for it warm up. Added 2 grams of Kmeta.

My concern is, three of the lugs had considerable amount of what looked like dark mold on the protective paper sheet under the grapes. The grapes didn't have any visible mold, but they are dark and so was the mold. Doesn't have an odor.

Anything I should do beside the Kmeta?

Also picked up 108 lbs of Chilean Malbec grapes. No issues with these so far. Waiting for the must to get up to temp here as well.
 

Boatboy24

No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
14,401
Reaction score
12,203
Location
DC Suburbs
I've occasionally seen that, but I'm not sure its actually mold. Never a considerable amount though. Would like to see what others say.
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
Thanks Boatboy, I'm less concerned today, and yes although mold like, there was also some gelatinous like layer on the bottom of one lug, it didn't have an odor or seem to be on the grapes themselves.

Took readings and pitched yeast this morning.

South African Cab Sauv Brix 26 TA 6.5 PH 3.66
Chilean Malbec Brix 25 TA 6 PH 3.15

Concerned a little bit about the PH in the Malbec, but going to let it ride.
 
Last edited:

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
The tale of two wines continues.

Pitched both batches at the same time with RC212, used the same punch down tool for both batches. Added MLB to both around day 5.

At around day 8 the Malbec cap wasn't quite as robust as the Cab. Day 10 same thing with caps, Malbec was flatlining at .990 and Cab was at .996, pressed both and moved into secondaries.

Malbec and Cab both smelled fine. The Malbec had no activity what so ever immediately in secondary, not even a degassing, while Cab seemed to be degassing and/or MLF activity. Cab is still showing MLF activity today.

At day 30 with nothing happening in the secondary of the Malbec I decided to rack off the lees add kmeta and oak, but when I opened the carboy I was hit with the most horrible smell. It's beyond sulfur more like a late August uncleaned port-a-potty. I didn't know wine could smell this bad. I splash racked it three times added kmeta, and although the smell has dissipated it still lingers.

Not sure what went wrong. PH too low at 3.15? Nutrients? Infection? Some sort of combo?

I did add yeast nutrients at the beginning and MLF nutrients when MLB pitched

I don't want to hit this with copper, but might have no choice.

The only positive I see is it's clearing quicker than anything I have made to date.

Any insights would be much appreciated.
 

cmason1957

CRS Sufferer
WMT Supporter
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
4,218
Reaction score
3,630
Location
O'Fallon, MO - Just NorthWest of St. Louis, MO
Usually bad smells like that are due to unhappy yeast during primary or being left on the lees to long, or a combination of both. 30 days is about 14 or 15 more than I would have left them on the lees. Many people go 2-5 days. 3.15 might be a bit low for MLF to take off, it depends on the Malolactic bacteria used. I would not treat this with copper, at least not yet. Reduless is a much nicer, controlled way to help remove the smells from stressed yeast. Here is a link to order it: https://morewinemaking.com/products/reduless.html?site_id=5. it is sometimes a bit hard to find.
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
Ordered Reduless for the Malbec, crossing my fingers.

Racked the Cab off the lees today and it smells and taste pretty darn good. 38 days since crush, 33 days since MLB, 28 days since press. Still fine bubble activity.

I treated both grape batches the same. Nutrients, yeast, MLB, tools, etc. But I guess the malbec needed to be treated differently. PH corrected? More nutrient additions? Racked off the lees sooner? All of the above? Also I didn't cool down the ferments this year with frozen water bottles.
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,715
Reaction score
6,727
Location
South Louisiana
I treated both grape batches the same. Nutrients, yeast, MLB, tools, etc. But I guess the malbec needed to be treated differently. PH corrected? More nutrient additions? Racked off the lees sooner? All of the above? Also I didn't cool down the ferments this year with frozen water bottles.
Just narrowing down the variables (since both wines were handled the same) would lead me to the pH issue of the Malbec, which should have adjusted upwards prefermentation, yielding a pH in the range which would allow both AF and MLF to progress without stress. It's better to make these adjustments in the must and allow the acidity to be integrated into the wine during its creation. Length of time on the gross lees is a little long as well.

That said, all is not lost. With the reduless and the racking protocol it requires, you should be able to rid the wine of the stinkies, get your pH up a bit, and create a more favorable environment for your MLB. I believe that when grapes are shipped a distance, the protective SO2 that is used can be detrimental to MLF, and don't add any more when I get my must, FWIW........
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
Received the Reduless today, followed instruction and added to the Malbec. Says to wait 72 hours and rack.

3.15 pH reading still. Would any of you adjust this after the Reduless process? Attempt MLF after? I did add Kmeta when I splashed racked the other day.

The odor has dissipated quite a bit, but still there, hoping this stuff knocks it out.
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
cmason that's what I was afraid of.

It's 72 hours since the Reduless was added, but can't rack until am tomorrow. I hope and additional 12-16 hours won't be an issue.
 

cmason1957

CRS Sufferer
WMT Supporter
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
4,218
Reaction score
3,630
Location
O'Fallon, MO - Just NorthWest of St. Louis, MO
cmason that's what I was afraid of.

It's 72 hours since the Reduless was added, but can't rack until am tomorrow. I hope and additional 12-16 hours won't be an issue.
I don't think delaying for an extra few hours will cause any issues. From what I understand about how it works, the Sulphur gets bound up and sinks to the bottom. But, I wouldn't wait days or weeks.
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
Thanks, there is about an inch of sediment that has dropped out since the Reduless.
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
Well, although quite diminished after racking today, the odor is still there.
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
Don't know if this worth putting anymore effort into. Guess we'll see what time does to it.
 

Boatboy24

No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
14,401
Reaction score
12,203
Location
DC Suburbs
You won't get all of it to dissipate after a single racking. Patience is also required. ;)
 

JohnT

Moderator
Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
10,001
Reaction score
5,706
Don't know if this worth putting anymore effort into. Guess we'll see what time does to it.

If this is an H2S issue, simply waiting is the wrong thing to do. H2S will "morph" into other issues that are not so easily cured.

How much Redueless did you apply? Perhaps you need to give it a second treatment?
 

pgentile

Still learning
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
901
John hi, yeah I was going to ask about doing a second Redueless application. I bought and used enough for six gallon application. It's not expensive, I will order another.

It definately diminished the odor, especially in the one gallon jug versus the 5 gl carboy, and I think because proportionately it a little more redueless per gallon than the carboy.

Thanks
 

Ajmassa

just a guy
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
4,042
Reaction score
4,039
Location
S. Jersey/Philadelphia area
Assuming your pH still low at 3.15 do you plan on adjusting after this odor issue hopefully is handled?
And also did you ever check or test to see if the MLF ever took off at all on the Malbec in spite of all this??
I've been following along since your original post. I've heard reduless suggested often and I'm curious and hopeful to see how it works out for you.
And since I'm already bombarding you with questions I have 1 more. Would using copper run the risk of damaging the wine?
 

Latest posts

Top