Should I trim?

[Racer]

When establishing vines to begin with keep this schedule in mind. The first year is for the roots (let the vines grow as much green as it can to help it grow a good root system). Year 2 prune the vine back to 2 buds on 1 or 2 of the strongest shoots. The stored energy in the root system will usually make for very strong growth during this year so you can get them on to the cordon wire with a nice size to them. If you have good growth going into year 3 you can prune back to just under the cordon wire. That way the buds at the top still have to grow up slightly to get to the cordon wire. The vine will look like a "Y" then and its alot easier to train the shoot growth onto the cordon wire with out breaking the shoots. Year 4 should be were you can just shoot thin (if needed) and you can finally take a crop from the vines.

Since you had a problem with disease pressures killing off the growing tips on you last year you had thinner growth on your shoots. Too much energy got used up trying to re-grow the shoot tips and get leaves back on the vine. If you can find a point on the shoots from last years growth that did reach the size of a pencil go ahead and prune back to that point if you want to. Just don't use a smaller size to settle with. Doing so will put you into a smaller,weaker,and slower growing vine.

 

[AlFulchino]

i am going to add in a suggestion for the vines in that picture w the cardboard behind it......clean up all organic debris around the vines...and remove...also spray that fence w a bleach solution to kill anything on it.....you dont want it to be a source for *anything*....

 

[grapeman]

Normally one of the first things I would do with the vine is to put in two bamboo poles about 6 inches apart and attach your two canes you are leaving to them-one on each. That will form you two trunks. The vine you are growing however is Marquis- a white seedless table grape that grows best utilizing cane pruning. For that type grape and pruning,I would prune it to a fan shaped cane pruned vine. For that you use about a foot to a foot and a half and head there normally. That allows a number of shoots to grow that year, which become the fruiting canes you leave next year. You prune back to 3-5 canes from those and leave some spurs at the head. Those form canes that year and don't fruit- they become the fruiting canes for the following year. Anyway, those 3-5 canes get left about 3-4 feet long and will send out fruiting shoots along their lengths. Using this system, my four year Marquis produce about 20 pounds of seedless white grapes with some clusters weighing close to a pound apiece.

For most regular wine grapes the way the guys are talking works great. I thought I posted here a few days ago, but must be I got distracted and never hit the post reply button!

Good luck with the vines. Marquis are really delicious, but tend to be thin skinned so they can split a bit, so keep an eye out for that.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Racer - Thanks for all the info and advise. I think I'm ready to prune now.

AlFulchino -Good to know about the debris. I'll clean it up. Thanks.

grapeman - Thanks for the specific Marquis info. There is not a lot of information on Marquis grapes out there. The vines had a few small bunches last year and we were impressed with how sweet and good they were. Morrisonville is way up there in NY. I have spent a lot of time in Schroon Lake over the past 50 years. Beautiful area. Lots of history.
Larry

 

[Larryh86GT]

Nice and sunny day here so I got the pruners out and cut them back. Boy they sure have a lot further to go to get to the overhead wires now. Will this work?

 

[Racer]

I'd say your good to go until budbreak now. Have you been reading up on IPM for this up coming season? Here's the midwest grape production were you can learn about the disease's and what to use on them to keep them under control.


Here's the midwest small fruit spray guide too.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Thanks. I wasn't overly sure about leaving the 3rd cane on the 1 vine. So far in preparing for the mildew problem I have gotten Liquid Copper Fungicide and Captan.

 

[Larryh86GT]

I would attah a wire half way up spme where around the 3 ft mark, selecct your best cane and attach itto the middle line to train it vertical and remove the other canes. When it reaches the top cut to top off forcing lateral shoots to form. While you are pruning may I suggest that you takea 18in cutting with several nodes atleast three, cutting about 1 inch below the bottom node and place them in some water in a warm window and root you some more vines. I have rooted about thirty vines this year off my 4 vines.
Good Luck

I followed your advise and stuck the cuttings in water. While my vines are only just starting to hint at bud break these cuttings are growing.
Larry

 

[grapeman]

I hope I am wrong, but I believe those cuttings will die in a while. Chances are they did not callous before you put them in the water, in which case they likely won't root. * Soon the tops will grow using water faster than the stems can take it in and the vines will turn yellow, then brown wilt and die. What the other poster probably did was take green cuttings while the shoot was actively growing. It is possible to root them, but most will not root like you did it. Next time, place them in a moist newspaper, wrap up in a plastic bag and place in a warm location (about 85) for a couple weeks and then place in a rooting mix. That forms callouses which then differntiate the cells into root structure.

Saying that, I hope all of your cuttings grow. Good luck.

*(99 out of 100 growers that try it like you are get excited to see the green growth only to get heaqrtbroken when they die because of no root formation)

 

[Larryh86GT]

I know you're right but it was fun to watch the buds break and grow so rapidly on these twigs. I'll try this again this summer with green cuttings.
Larry

 

[Drunken Midget]

good start..... http://www.isons.com/pdf/developing_pruning_muscadine_vine.pdf

 

[Larryh86GT]

good start..... http://www.isons.com/pdf/developing_pruning_muscadine_vine.pdf

That's a nice descriptive & easy to follow pdf.
Thank you DM.
Larry

 

[Larryh86GT]

I'm still puzzeled

After pruning back to 2 canes there are now many new canes/buds growing off my 3 year old Marquis grapes. Should I give up on my idea of getting these vines up to the 7 foot high wires? I can remove the T the 4 wires are on and just rerun the wires between the upright posts. Then I can train the new canes to the lowered wires.

Larry

 

[AlFulchino]

assuming you are past frost and can afford to not have the need for replacement buds..take your top best buds and let them run up that trellis...if this is their fourth leaf the should already have a strong enough root system to let some canes go 12-16 feet in one yr

 

[Larryh86GT]

The vine is growing rapidly now. I did remove the top T wires and changed it to running 3 wires between the posts. Now to get it trained to the wires.

Larry

 

[grapeman]

It looks to me like you are trying to train that Marquis vine into Vertical Shoot Positioning. That may work out for you, but in my experience growing Marquis, a fan shaped cane pruned vine works much better. That is what I was trying to get you to go to earlier this year. You may get a few clusters if you leave them this year, but the vines become much less fruitful and overgrown in future years. They stay much more productive using the replacement canes every year. Any way you go, I wish you great luck with the vines, they are a great tasting grape especially for seedless.

PS- how are the cuttings doing- I hope they grew and proved me wrong.

 

[Larryh86GT]

Hey, I appreciate your input. Obviously I haven't grasped the best method yet.

Could you post a picture of your Marquis vine? That may help me. It's not too late to reposition the shoots.

You were spot on with the cuttings. They stayed green a long time but no roots developed. I tossed them earlier this week.

Larry

 

[grapeman]

I will try to remember when I have the camera out in the vineyard again. I left more than normal this year as insurance. We had a very cold winter last year (2008-2009) and got fewer and larger canes than normal, which can lead to lower cold tolerance. As a result, the canes are left longer to allow for possible increased bud damage from this past winter- (2009-2010). I will adjust them after I see how many buds grew.

 

[Larryh86GT]

That would be great Richard. To be honest right now I don't know what
a fan shaped cane pruned vine would be.

Larry

 

[grapeman]

Check this link out- quicker than me drawing something and getting in the computer.
http://www.jlgardencenter.com/uploads/handouts/Pruning%20Grapes.pdf

look at the bottom of the page.