Second Year of Plantation Starting. How to prune?? Help please!

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman Hope you are doing well. Do you have any idea what is causing these brown patches on my Thompson Seedless grapes. We are following a proper spray program.

Same image zoomed in:

 

[grapeman]

I have seen those type marks from time to time but never been able to tell what causes them. I suspect some type of piercing insect feeding when they are tiny but never been able to verify it.

 

[treesaver]

I've had my grapes marked up like that after a hailstorm several times. If it gets very big, it will knock the berries off, but small hail will make them look like that.

 

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman
Looking to find some answers. 3 vines (all 3 are thompson seedless) in my vineyard have turned yellow and their grapes are also yellow rather than green. Furthermore these grapes are much smaller than the green grapes on the other vines next to these. Is this some disease or virus?

Some of the grapes have started to brown and die in these unhealthy vines.

In this unhealthy vine, you can notice that a few of the grapes are much larger than the majority. These have red arrows drawn pointing towards them. They are of the size the others should have been if the vine was healthy.

Other than this, even in some of the healthy Thompson seedless vines, there are clusters in which some grapes are perfectly fine, while others have browned off and died. I was following a slightly altered version of an Ohio grape spray program I found online (https://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/fruitpathology/Bulletins/Ohio Grape Spray Program-2014.pdf). Can someone help me with deducing what this is? It is mainly affecting the Thompson seedless variety.

This damage is on an otherwise healthy vine

 

[grapeman]

I wish I had a quick answer for you. The yellowing vines look like a nutrient deficiency which can also cause shriveled grapes like those. If I had to guess I might say Magnesium or Iron. A leaf petiole sample might narrow it down for you. Also if you could get a foliar fertilizer once the deficiency is identified you could spray on the foliar nutrient which is fairly quick acting.

 

[Masbustelo]

I'm curious ( because your in a semi-tropical climate):What is your pH? Is there the possibility of high aluminum or other metals? What is your organic matter content? How do other crops in your area grow (meaning do they grow well)? What do your neighbors grow and what are the challenges they face, that are soils related?

 

[daniyalsm]

I'm curious ( because your in a semi-tropical climate):What is your pH? Is there the possibility of high aluminum or other metals? What is your organic matter content? How do other crops in your area grow (meaning do they grow well)? What do your neighbors grow and what are the challenges they face, that are soils related?

According to wiki my climate is "five-season semi-arid climate".

The pH is around 8-8.5. I have never gotten soil tested for aluminum. Organic matter content is around 0.7%. I think the summer sun burns up all the organic matter. Crops in our area generally grow pretty well. The main crops grown in my specific area are rice and wheat. Other crops include corn, barley, sugarcane, fodder, all sorts of vegetables, guavas, citrus, mangoes (not suited to this part of Punjab), lychees etc. Basically we can grow almost anything unless it can't width stand the summer heat or the winter cold (which isn't very cold here. Probably reaches 32F only once a year).
As far as soil related challenges, almost every field is different. Some are good at holding water (good for rice), others are well draining etc. I guess one problem is lowering pH for crops like Strawberry, which is also grown on small scale. We can use high sulphur fertilizers for that.

@grapeman foliar testing is not really prevalent here right now. Should I just get the grapes sprayed for all sorts of micronutrients? Also I sprayed all grapes with GA a few weeks ago.

 

[grapeman]

You really need to know what is deficient or in too high of an amount before applying foliar. I assume the GA is Gibberellic Acid. That may have some bearing on the grape size since it is used to size up grapes. Maybe it was the wrong dilution rate? I really have no experience with it.

 

[Masbustelo]

Here is a link to an article regarding soil pH and grapes. Your soil is much more alkaline than that which is recommended. This will affect nutrient uptake and availability to the plants, which may manifest in many different ways. http://www.growingproduce.com/fruits/commentary-how-soil-ph-influences-grapes/ Also your organic content is low. If you receive sufficient rainfall and fire isn't a concern I would consider mulching the entire field with products such as rice hulls, wheat chaff, mango leaves, sugar cane chaff, etc. In time this will be incorporated into the soil profile and aid with many potential issues. Also remember that 50% of the plant is below ground. Mulch may potentially reduce root zone temperature by 7 degrees C. I think the problems with aluminum are associated with acidic soils.

 

[daniyalsm]

@masbustelo That is true, however there are lots of areas in Pakistan with similar pH soils that are being used for grapes. I guess I will start mulching. I can probably also add cow manure right?
As for wheat straw, we just got done harvesting wheat and have a lot of straw available. How do you suggest I proceed? Should it be on the entire field or only in grapevine rows. Also how thick of a layer should be good?

 

[Masbustelo]

dani Regarding cow manure; it could be an excellent source of nitrogen etc. but how have you been fertilizing up to this point? And what are your current nutrition levels and plant needs. Have you done a recent soil test? Also regarding using agricultural bi-products with your grapes (which I am advocating) is it contaminated with herbicides? Regarding wheat straw; it can be an excellent mulch you need to keep it somewhat pulled back from the vines if mice are a problem. Regarding depth 6-8 inches. It ought to be deep enough that sunlight doesn't penetrate it. It needs to be periodically renewed because it will decompose (which is good) and be tramped down as well. Do you get adequate rain so that potentially the mulch wouldn't catch fire? The advantages of mulches are many; weed control, less cultivation, lower soil temperatures, increased earthworm activity, intermediate buffer zone for chemicals used on the grapes before they enter the soil, increase organic matter in root zone over time, addition of micro nutrients over time, increased level of desirable fungi and desirable insect activity. If it is possible the entire field should be mulched; you will have much less evaporation. Where I am I use wood chips. Remember that as much plant that you have above ground exists below ground. With mulch and a larger water zone in your soil the plants will be able to extend root development between the rows as well. One final thought is that depending on the chemicals you are using and compatibility; with a permanent mulch and less cultivation it might be possible to inter-crop with something that might increase cash flow. Like chile peppers or bell peppers.

 

[daniyalsm]

Right now have been using chemical fertilizers. First done was just before bud break and the other was a little over 2 months after the first dose. Fertilizers used have been AS, CAN, SSP, SOP, Epsom salt and Boron.

Current nutrition levels are unknown. Soil test was done about 1 year ago. Our soil was fine in N and K but deficient in P. Those are the only 3 tested for. pH around 8-8.5 and organic matter 0.6-0.8%.

Right now there is fire risk as farmers burn leftover wheat straw in fields after they harvest most for animal feed. May and June are generally dry, with Monsoon starting in July.

I will probably activate my drip irrigation system in this field soon, so might do even without mulching the entire field. Also my grapevine row to row distance is 10 feet. Do you think inter-cropping will be ok and wont strain the vines? Thanks!

 

[Masbustelo]

If you have access to adequate animal manures to fertilize your vineyard, and if fertilization is necessary and required, it is to your advantage to use them. You will gain the same increase of nutrients as with chemical fertilizers plus increase your needed organic matter, increase beneficial micro organisms, increase earthworm populations, add micro nutrients as well. I suspect the emphasis on chemical fertilizer comes both from the fertilizer industry propaganda and U.S. agriculture practice. In the U.S. labor is high $, it is cheaper and quicker to apply granules. Also the livestock industry and crop production industry tend to be geographically seperated. Row crop production practices in the U.S don't automatically transfer over as best practice into the vineyard. I would encourage you to use the organic (natural vs man made) materials and manures that you have available. Healthy, high organic soil goes a long way, helping with both chemical soil imbalances and disease and insect pressure. Regarding inter-cropping, I suspect that it won't affect the vines negatively which is why I suggested it. You will have to experiment to find out. Given adequate nutrition, and water is provided I don't believe they will compete. I suspect that U.S. and European monocultural vineyard practice may be in part be related to high labor costs. It is much less labor intensive to run a tractor down a row to mow or clean till vs. intercropping. Your in a unique and somewhat enviable situation. You have a high value crop and low labor cost.

 

[Masbustelo]

Remember to keep your mulch pulled back about six inches from the vine.

 

[daniyalsm]

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback and suggestions. I will definitely start incorporating manure, however I believe incorporating at this stage might not be the best, as I have heard fertilization should not be done during berry softening. Will probably do after harvest.
Will also experiment with inter-cropping, as that suggestion was given to me by others as well.
What is the specific reason to keep mulch pulled back six inches from vine? To prevent rot, or to allow adequate water to reach the vine?

 

[Masbustelo]

To keep rodents way.

 

[daniyalsm]

Hi,

Just got a few questions. So my grapes bud break was around 1st March. Today (23rd May - about 82 days ago) some varieties are undergoing veraison. I am wondering whether they will still increase in size or not? I think they are small.
Also how to know when they are ready for harvest? I read in an article that veraison lasts 6-8 weeks, however mine began about a week ago and I doubt it will take that long at least for the Flame Seedless.

About this Thompson, this is really dense right? I believe there are too many berries. Do you think the berries will gain proper size?

These clusters seem to weight more than 1kg (2.2 pounds)

 

[balatonwine]

@grapeman
Looking to find some answers. 3 vines (all 3 are thompson seedless) in my vineyard have turned yellow and their grapes are also yellow rather than green. Furthermore these grapes are much smaller than the green grapes on the other vines next to these. Is this some disease or virus?

Possibly nutrient issues, such as :

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/english/grapes/plant-nutrition/iron.html

and the berry damage may be black rot or just sun scald:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/english/grapes/diseases-and-disorders/sunburn.html

If the yellow leaves are curling, then a pathogen like phytoplasma can cause both yellow leaves and drying of the fruit. This is more serious problem:

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/english/grapes/diseases-and-disorders/phytoplasmas.html

In brief, hard to say exactly what is causing the issue just from photos.

 

[balatonwine]

I will definitely start incorporating manure

Raw manure is not ideal as it can be high in salts. Manure is best when first composted. See this:

http://articles.extension.org/pages/32929/compost-use-in-vineyards

 

[grapeman]

Remember you are growing in an environment strange to may of us in the US. Hard to tell if they will size up a lot more or not. Remember these are pretty young vines and the clusters are large so they may not get to normal full size. I think you have done a great job overall growing where they aren't commonly grown.