Sanitizing question

[sfgaragewine]

i am making wine with a friend who has made wine for years but we have not made wine together.

I was sanitizing carboys using Star San (about one oz per 5 gallons of water). Mixed sanitizer in one carboy, swishing around, then pouring into the next.

My friend saw the sudsy remnants of the Star San in the carboys and said he wasn’t comfortable leaving it in the carboy, so rinsed it out with water from the garden hose.

A few questions:

What is the chance that water from the hose or tap water in general would introduce harmful contaminants into the carboys?

Is there any concern with leaving residue from the sanitizer in the carboy? Is there a need to rinse the sanitizer out? Any health concerns?

 

[CDrew]

No. Star San is great. Rinsing it with hose water, just nullifies it's benefit. Even the foam is beneficial-it sterilizes the neck of the carboy as the wine level rises. It is a "no rinse" sanitizer. It is not detectable in wine even at fairly high levels. I once by accident ran a gallon of wine into a bucket that had a quart of Star San in it. I tasted it anyway, and you cannot tell it is there.

I have heard that the tiny amount phosphoric acid in the StarSan is metabolized by the yeast anyway. It sounds plausible.

But with StarSan, use, drain, but do not rinse.

 

[sour_grapes]

Agree with CDrew, but I realize another of your questions was about what about the tap water from the hose. I cannot say anything about the hose, but if you have a municipal water supply, I wouldn't worry about contaminants. I use city water to reconstitute kits, so I suppose it can't be all bad!

 

[Scooter68]

A lot depends on the garden hose condition. While city water can be just fine - putting it though a garden hose with unknown substances in it (Dirt, dust, bugs, bacteria, etc) you could have undone the work of the Star San.

The only time I rinse StarSan is if it's foamed up my SG testing tube. (Makes getting a reading a bit tough. )

Suggested reading:
https://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/StarSanTech-HB2.pdf

If you read enough before using many of these products, you can find out what you need to know.

Just keep in mind, on just about any topic on this forum or others, you are going to find folks who want to question every common practice for hours on end. Some, while perhaps having some knowledge of chemistry, tend to find fault with many common and proven practices winemakers use.

Seriously, I would ask your friend how he sanitizes and how he keeps things like his garden hose free of bacteria. (The common garden hose has is really not made for use in food production and whatever chemicals you run through it to clean it may just end up leaching out material better kept well away from wine.) Perhaps he was using a hose (Similar to a garden hose) made from food safe material.

 

[CDrew]

Ya-city water is likely pretty good from a public health perspective but it certainly isn't sanitized to the degree your equipment will be after StarSan. And my garden hose at least sits in the sun, lies in the dirt and is barely clean most of the time. I keep a "special" 25 foot hose to use with my bladder press that I use for nothing else, but that's likely overkill.

If you look at this picture, you can see the StarSan foam that I'm pushing out with the wine being racked into the carboy:

View attachment 56695

 

[balatonwine]

What is the chance that water from the hose or tap water in general would introduce harmful contaminants into the carboys?

Tap water, nil. It is treated if you are city mains. Hose, see what CDrew said as that has more complicated issues.

What you need to be aware of is that micro-organisms are floating in the air around you right now. No mater how much you sanitize a container, that open top is exposed to air, and all sorts of things are constantly entering your container. It will never be micro-organism free.

But if you are worried, the best option is not rinse with tap water but that is up to you. What is more important is making sure you really scrub clean the container properly. Final rise then is less important. I personally use a k-meta solution as a final rise in bottles before bottling, which can be used in each step if wished. But I use just tap water on large equipment such as on my press, 300 liter must bins, etc. After all the grapes spent months in a dirty field, and were not sanitized before crushing. They are "sanitized" by k-meta after crushing, in a container, and that k-meta will also then sanitize the container then too. Some perspective is needed.

 

[Scooter68]

When someone asks about where to buy a fermentation bucket - the answers on her are pretty consistent.... for smaller containers - a food safe container.

What could be an issue is the fact that most foods (table foods vs say a mouthwash) do not contain really significant amounts of alcohol. Not all plastics are necessarily safe with the introduction of alcohol.
I mention that to say that the common garden hose material may OR may NOT be safe or even capable of being properly sanitized for use in wine making. The same could be said for various larger plastic containers I hear people talk about using for wine making. Saying this not to upset or condemn folks but to state that wine making (Fermentation) is not the same as short term storage or gathering of fruit and vegetables. We introduce acids, Sulfites and various other common wine elements that might be adversely affected by, or adversely affect those containers.

Proper and adequate review of the things we use in wine making falls on our heads individually.

Personally (That means for me only) I just don't want to hang my health, my families, my friends, and my wine's health on an assumption that IF I sanitize it, then it's safe to use.

Just this past week someone mentioned that they feared that glass marbles could contain Lead - very possible. I've even seen cups/mugs that looked very pretty only to look at the bottom and see a notification - NOT SUITABLE FOR DRINKING. Such notifications exist because someone tested it and identified a potential health risk stemming from that containers materials. (Most commonly Lead levels in the clay or material used to glaze or finish the container.)

So when you look around for something like a hose, or container to use for your wine making, it might be wise to take some precautions.

Perhaps not this dramatic but....

 

[user 36973]

Not all plastics are necessarily safe with the introduction of alcohol.

Exactly! I'll also add that not all materials are safe at all pH levels or with specific acids. For example, copper pipe is perfectly safe for your drinking water but will prove toxic if given sufficient contact with wine due to the pH.

Fortunately most plastics we will encounter for use in winemaking are compatible with the normal concentration of organic acids present in wine.

Here is a nice chemical compatibility chart for reference:
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/files/charts/LG CC.pdf