Sanitizing Bottles What do you use (Poll)

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What do you use Star San or SO2


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Currently, PBW for cleaning. Formerly sal soda.

Currently StarSan for santizing. Formerly Kmeta in distilled water.

Except bottles prior to bottling. Then Kmeta on the day of bottling. Bottles drain on tree.

Open to trying other products.
 

balatonwine

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what is your preferred method of sanitizing?
Simply as an example: An ammonia solution makes for a very good sanitizing agent for the bottle itself (probably better than Sulfite alone). Rinse well with water or another solution. Sanitizing need not be the same as the final rinse. And tap water alone is pretty sterile enough for home wine making purposes for a final rinse in most places (it has to pass a lot of codes to reach your tap, and is pretty dead biologically). If in doubt, use hot water. Water over 60°C will kill most problems.

Personally, I use a Sulfuric acid solution to clean the bottle. Then rinse with hot water and Sulfite. The Sulfite is mostly only to add SO2 to the wine, not to so much sanitize the bottle. But that is just me.
 
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heatherd

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You may be right about the "bottle shock" but I religiously wait at least 4 weeks before even tasting. UC Davis should employ some science here.

Bottling by yourself is tough. Even a little bit of help moving or sanitizing bottles, speeds things up tremendously.

Regarding Oxi-clean and one-step, lets get real. They are excellent cleaners. Maybe that's enough. But they are not sanitizers, and that's what you need.



I do not think that citric acid has any other role to play other than to lower the pH and make the sulfite solution more effective. And in fact, tartaric acid has the same effect, just not quite as efficiently. But it's more appropriate in wine. But 3 tablespoons of citric acid is way more than you need. Just measure the pH. Then you know where you are.
OneStep has some sanitizing properties because it has hydrogen peroxide in it: One Step - LOGIC, Inc. (ecologiccleansers.com) I use it on my equipment and love that it's low-foam and fairly natural.

After a few years of cleaning and sanitizing my bottles, I'm now in @Ajmassa's camp of bottling directly in the box.
 

heatherd

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I guess that's referring to me. I have nothing against Oxyclean - just never used it. I bought a jar of PBW a year ago and haven't used it up yet. Is Oxyclean cheaper? Better?
OneStep is different than household Oxyclean in that it doesn't need rinsing, doesn't leave a residue, is low-foam, and has some sanitizing properties from the hydrogen peroxide in it. I like it because it streamlines my work.

Here's what the manufacturer says about it:
"One Step is the only environmentally sound, non-toxic, no-rinse cleanser on the market today for brewers and wineries. Unlike other cleansers that require rinsing because of their alkaline nature or that use materials that can be harmful to the environment, One Step — the original no-rinse cleanser — uses active oxygen to clean your equipment. In addition to being designed to minimize residue and while maximizing detergency, One Step uses oxygen entrained within a mineral crystal that dissolves when combined with water. The oxygen is then released to form hydrogen peroxide – a compound long known for its sanitizing and disinfectant abilities. The hydrogen peroxide completes its work and then degrades into oxygen and water, leaving behind only the minerals that are stable, naturally occurring compounds – no different than minerals often found in drinking water. Because One Step is essentially non-foaming when used at the recommended concentration, it may be used in clean-in-place (CIP) systems as well as in the soak tank. One Step may be used on, essentially, all surfaces and is safe for brass, copper, aluminum and stainless, as well as polycarbonate and vinyl."
 

VillaVino

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Been using one step for many years. Started to use oxy clean for the tougher cleaning situations but always finish with a one step rinse.
 

CDrew

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OneStep has some sanitizing properties because it has hydrogen peroxide in it: One Step - LOGIC, Inc. (ecologiccleansers.com) I use it on my equipment and love that it's low-foam and fairly natural.

After a few years of cleaning and sanitizing my bottles, I'm now in @Ajmassa's camp of bottling directly in the box.
No doubt but requires a 20 minute or more exposure to sanitize. The nice part about Star San and KMBS is that it's basically instant.
 

winemaker81

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No doubt but requires a 20 minute or more exposure to sanitize. The nice part about Star San and KMBS is that it's basically instant.
According to Midwest Supplies, StarSan requires 1 to 2 minutes of contact. Other vendors said either 1 minute or 1 to 2 minutes.

Another page, might be the manufacturer's, said StarSan is good only for 1 hour after mixing. I moved off the page and haven't found it again. Northern Brewer says the solution is good for 3 to 4 weeks in a sealed container. Ok ... who's right? Unless it's the manufacturer's page, be cautious of what is believed. I have nothing against StarSan, just pointing out that what we take as facts may not be facts. It's hard to know what to believe. This is equally true for all products.

We had a discussion a few weeks ago regarding pectic enzyme. A lot of sites regurgitated what's in a study from 1950 ... regarding products that no longer exist. Someone contacted current vendors, who presented current facts. We have to triple-check our sources to ensure they are up to date and reliable.
 

Bill Pet

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I've used starsan for the last 5 years. No problems. Works fast, no rinsing. According to many posts when I first started using it, it keeps well. Ok to use as long as it still foams -- 2-3 months in a closed container. One issue, it turns cloudy within a short time when mixed with water containing minerals like tap water and store spring water. White stuff actually precipitates out. I use distilled water. In fact, just add the starsan to a gallon distilled water jug.
 

balatonwine

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Here's what the manufacturer says about it:
"One Step is the only environmentally sound, non-toxic, no-rinse cleanser on the market today for brewers and wineries. Unlike other cleansers that require rinsing because of their alkaline nature or that use materials that can be harmful to the environment, One Step — the original no-rinse cleanser — uses active oxygen to clean your equipment. In addition to being designed to minimize residue and while maximizing detergency, One Step uses oxygen entrained within a mineral crystal that dissolves when combined with water. The oxygen is then released to form hydrogen peroxide – a compound long known for its sanitizing and disinfectant abilities. The hydrogen peroxide completes its work and then degrades into oxygen and water, leaving behind only the minerals that are stable, naturally occurring compounds – no different than minerals often found in drinking water. Because One Step is essentially non-foaming when used at the recommended concentration, it may be used in clean-in-place (CIP) systems as well as in the soak tank. One Step may be used on, essentially, all surfaces and is safe for brass, copper, aluminum and stainless, as well as polycarbonate and vinyl."
And I want none of that.... whatever.... in my wine.

This is totally me and totally me alone.... So no matter what product I use, I will rinse. ;)

But we are each different. This is not a critique. Simple stating my personal preference. No science to back up my claim. It is just me. To each their own. Cheers. :)
 

VillaVino

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And I want none of that.... whatever.... in my wine.

This is totally me and totally me alone.... So no matter what product I use, I will rinse. ;)

But we are each different. This is not a critique. Simple stating my personal preference. No science to back up my claim. It is just me. To each their own. Cheers. :)
You’re not alone. If I know the bottles or equipment is going to sit long enough to dry, I’ll just leave the One step on it. If I’m cleaning and I’m bottling within a short while (say 30 mins), I’ll rinse with water too.
 

StreetGlide

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This is what I do. Not saying it’s the best or even right for that matter, but it’s worked. Everything gets washed in One Step or Oxy (No scent). Bottles and fermenters always get sanatozed with Kneta. Fermenters pour half a cup of solution in seal it for 15 mins or longer and let the vapors do their job, then I do rinse with hot water after pouring kmeta out. Bottles I use that plastic bottle sanatizer tool (can’t think of the name but sure you all seen it and or have one) kmeta gets shot in the bottle then the bottle goes back in the box lined with clean paper towels to dry and again let vapors do their job bottles don’t get rinsed. Everything else, spoons, AIO hoses and fittings, etc I use starsan out of a spray bottle give everything a good mist make sure it’s in contact a few minutes and that’s it.
 

winemaker81

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This is what I do. Not saying it’s the best or even right for that matter, but it’s worked.
Emphasis mine. There is no such thing as "best" in this context -- what matters is if the solution used is effective. So far, I can't recall anything said in this thread that I don't believe would be effective for cleaning and/or sanitizing.

We're looking at different methods of cleaning and/or sanitizing, and looking at products critically. This has been a truly valuable discussion.
 

mbrssmd

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This year I’m facing my first bottling (Barbera/rosé and red/CabFranc + PetitVerdot). This thread has been extraordinary. I really appreciate everyone’s contributions on their experiences, which has given me a lot of things to think about as I plan out my methods.
 

winemaker81

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When friends and family save bottles to be filled, sometimes they're not as clean as they would be if they would have been rinsed as soon as they were emptied.
Emphasis mine. I reviewed this thread and laughed again when I read this. I nearly spit my wine out the first read through, which would have been a terrible waste of wine!

Everyone receiving a bottle of my wine gets the same instructions -- rinse the bottle when done, drain it, and return it. Failure means no more wine.

Sometimes ya gotta be a hardass about these things .... ;)
 

Paulietivo

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Emphasis mine. I reviewed this thread and laughed again when I read this. I nearly spit my wine out the first read through, which would have been a terrible waste of wine!

Everyone receiving a bottle of my wine gets the same instructions -- rinse the bottle when done, drain it, and return it. Failure means no more wine.

Sometimes ya gotta be a hardass about these things .... ;)
People have "returned" bottles to me and in some cases I just put them in the recycle bin. Thanks for the bottles, aka headache of trying to clean out whatever you let grow in there. Ahh no thanks.
 

winemaker81

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People have "returned" bottles to me and in some cases I just put them in the recycle bin. Thanks for the bottles, aka headache of trying to clean out whatever you let grow in there. Ahh no thanks.
I'm WAY too cheap. $35 USD for 2 cases of bottles pushes my costs way up on each carboy.

I rinse all bottles in hot top water, regardless of where they come from. If it's mine, I visually inspect and sanitize, then put way. If it's not mine, soak in OneStep & hot water, use a bottle brush, sanitize, and put away.
 

Paulietivo

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I'm WAY too cheap. $35 USD for 2 cases of bottles pushes my costs way up on each carboy.

I rinse all bottles in hot top water, regardless of where they come from. If it's mine, I visually inspect and sanitize, then put way. If it's not mine, soak in OneStep & hot water, use a bottle brush, sanitize, and put away.
$35 for 2 cases is expensive. I've been getting bottles between $9-$13 per case.
Also agree if new are used always its way too expensive. I reuse all of my own bottles that I personally use. The ones that are returned to me are something not worth the hassle but if I need bottles then yes I will attempt to get them usable.
 

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