Saignee juice back to a red wine?

[NorCal]

I've adapted the Saignee method on my red wines as a method to improve the density of flavor in the wine. I've made Rose a few times, both received a silver at the CA State Fair, so it's decent wine, but we just don't choose to drink it. My thought is that instead of making Rose this year that I try to make a red out of it. Here is my thought this year:

Pull off the desired amount of juice from the Cab Franc and Merlot I'm doing this year for the barrel and freeze the Saignee juice (~8 gallons). Then, when I harvest the Petit Verdot, take around 60 pounds, crush, destem and ferment with the Saignee juice from the Cab Franc and Merlot, to make a couple carboys of Saignee Red Blend. It will have the very light juice from the Cab Franc and Merlot combined with the a super dark, tanic Petit Verdot grape.

Good idea? Bad idea? What do you think it would taste like?

 

[Boatboy24]

I think it's a really interesting idea. Do you have some Rose and PV from prior years that you might combine just for a bench trial? The only potential pitfall I see is 60lbs not being enough to darken the 'Rose' to your liking.

 

[Ajmassa]

Seems like the goal would be to make the rosé juice back into the type of wine it started out as. Like walking 10mi to get 2. And cancelling out that beautiful light juice!

I definitely understand not choosing to drink your rosé despite being a decent wine. I have a few of those wines too. But I’m not just making wine for myself. And not everyone is a ‘big red’ wino which makes the saignée style rosé the perfect storm. You boost your barrel and get a fun summer wine as a byproduct. A wine that transcends wine drinking crowds- everyone likes it! So it allows me to include more friends/fam into my bottle gifting.

You could blend that PV with anything to fatten it up. But doing so with the rosé juice almost seems backtracking and could be better served making a full bodied wine even bigger rather than a light wine to med-full bodied.
(I do admit I am biased having just started my 1st saignée style rosé last week while also using PV to beef up a Cab Franc and Cab Sauv- So this hits close to home)

 

[Ajmassa]

Now the counterpoints:
1. it could very well end up being an exceptional wine that’s also extremely unique. Which is a very cool thing and highly valued.
2. you’ve done this a few times and likely already have a decent rosé supply. Plus your bored with it and wanna spice it up.
3. there’s also likely plenty more of that PV to go around and utilize on other wines

One thought is to ferment separately and blend down the line maybe? Would give more control over the ratio decisions for a better final product and/or give further insight into if it’s worth using up that big dark & bold PV into that crisp bright & pretty rosé or not.

 

[CDrew]

I think it's a worthy experiment. and I agree with the idea of keeping the experiment small and contained.. Maybe use it as topping wine, since it's always handy to have a few ounces of wine to replace what you thief out for testing.

 

[NorCal]

I think it's a really interesting idea. Do you have some Rose and PV from prior years that you might combine just for a bench trial? The only potential pitfall I see is 60lbs not being enough to darken the 'Rose' to your liking.

I've only made Petite Sirah and Petit Verdot to blend with my other wines. A few years ago I had a carboy of each left over, so I bottled Petite Petit. I put it away, knowing its going to take a few years for that to come around. I could definitely take out one of those and try with an existing Rose. Good idea.

 

[NorCal]

I think it's a really interesting idea. Do you have some Rose and PV from prior years that you might combine just for a bench trial? The only potential pitfall I see is 60lbs not being enough to darken the 'Rose' to your liking.

It does not take much of that inky Petit Verdot to darken things up. 30% Petit Verdot in any wine should be pretty dark, not sure what it would taste like though. I've made a "second wine" twice and both times I ended dumping it. Drinkable, but not something I would reach for or give to someone as a representation of the wine I make.

 

[Boatboy24]

I started (and still do) make Petit Sirah as a blender. But some of the best wines I've ever made (though years later) are 100% Petit Sirah.

 

[NorCal]

A complete coincidence, my neighbor who is also a winemaker was bottling today and brought over a bottle for me. Cab Franc rose...no joke, had no idea he was even making it. We let it sit in the fridge for a few days, popped it open and it was pretty darn good. Even the Mrs. liked it, so there may be rose in our future this year vs. the whole purpose of this thread.

 

[cmason1957]

A complete coincidence, my neighbor who is also a winemaker was bottling today and brought over a bottle for me. Cab Franc rose...no joke, had no idea he was even making it. We let it sit in the fridge for a few days, popped it open and it was pretty darn good. Even the Mrs. liked it, so there may be rose in our future this year vs. the whole purpose of this thread.

The best laid plans of mice and men are ofttimes superceded by SWMBO. I think some really smart person observed that years ago. (or I just made it up, one never knows.)

 

[NorCal]

I talk to @4score about wine plans all the time and the only consistent thing is our plans change all the way up to bottling.