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CDrew

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Regarding the Bentonite, I had protein haze on my 2019 Viognier and Petite Manseng - the Bentonite cleared 'em right up.

Did you use the regular bentonite or the processed (and supposedly easier) stuff from MoreWine? I just ordered the standard stuff. It looks like you need to wet it, soak it and then stir in a blender just before use. That sound about right?
 

Boatboy24

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Did you use the regular bentonite or the processed (and supposedly easier) stuff from MoreWine? I just ordered the standard stuff. It looks like you need to wet it, soak it and then stir in a blender just before use. That sound about right?
I used the 'regular' stuff. Had to stir for quite a while.
 

Booty Juice

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Beautiful color. I don't see them needing anything except 4 to 6 months of time and low temps unless you wanna alter the flavor. Once bottled, those aren't gonna last long - they'll be gone before next harvest.
 

Ajmassa

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Did you use the regular bentonite or the processed (and supposedly easier) stuff from MoreWine? I just ordered the standard stuff. It looks like you need to wet it, soak it and then stir in a blender just before use. That sound about right?
By’ processed’ you mean they sell a bentonite premixed slurry? The stuff I got is EC Kraus ‘Speedy Bentonite’ dry mix bought locally seen in the pic. If I did end up with a haze I have options.

Aside from bentonite I’ve got DualFine (Keilosol/chitosan 2 part package. Aka SuperKleer) , pectic enzyme, and Polyclar 10. Hopefully the lysozyme doesn’t cause a haze but I’m sure one of these would clear it if it did. I like the fact that bentonite is natural. And dualFine since it grabs both the positive & negative charged particles. I used on the batch of Dragons Blood I made. Worked great.
the kit rosé I did few years back included Isinglass as the clarifier. To date I’ve never used a fining agent on any wine from grapes or juice and they’ve all cleared on their own. I would be more than happy to let all these products mentioned continue collecting dust on the shelf. 2D257428-76D5-45D8-8E10-DF0FA052DA34.jpeg
 

CDrew

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By’ processed’ you mean they sell a bentonite premixed slurry? The stuff I got is EC Kraus ‘Speedy Bentonite’ dry mix bought locally seen in the pic. If I did end up with a haze I have options.
No to the pre-mix. MoreWine has some interesting options that have Bentonite that compacts more and thus there is less racking loss. And it can be added directly without the hydration step. But which version you use, depends on pH. I just bought the standard bentonite, but may experiment next year. What I bought is a package of wine bentonite additive off the internet from LD Carlson. I'm going to try it and see what happens.
 

Ajmassa

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Just put the rosé outside for cold stabilization along w/ my with spring rosé. Targeting 3 weeks. Overnight temps hitting the 20’s° just about nightly. I’ll stick my little insulation jackets on them tomorrow after carboy temps have dropped.
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Red Mt Cab Rosé 3gal.
Its clearing well for just a couple months old though still has a haze. Never finished dry at 1.003 SG. I like it tho. And a nice contrast to the other dry rosé. Low ph at 3.25. Hit with ~25ppm so2. Hope this didn’t go thru mlf. Will confirm later. It was 3.32ph at crush. Haven’t gotten around to the lysozyme yet. Also I left the lees in. Fgured why not. (took ‘before’ pics to compare diamond fallout. existing sediment is not as thick as it looks in the pics above)


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Chilean Malbec Rosé 6gal.
At 8 months its ready to roll. Calling it ‘Malbec Blanc’. Dry, crystal clear seen above, co2 free, & accidentally malic acid free. Ph at 3.52. After CS i may or may not tinker with acid adjustments. TBD. Also may pop my whole house filter cherry before bottling.

Got a jug of a blend of the 2 as well. And I just realized I forgot to taste them before i put them out actually. I should do some sippin tonight.😁
 

Ajmassa

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Just checked on the rosé’s, now a week into CS, and the tartrate fallout is impressive. The malbec rosé had barely a dusting of sediment beforehand while the Red Mt rosé went in with a thick layer on the bottom.

The malbec fallout is building up quite a bit on the bottom as well as collecting in the sides. also when i shine a light at the right angle it looks like i mixed a cup of glitter into it! The sparkle is Visually pleasing to see but unfortunately doesn’t transfer to a still image.
Red Mt rosé starting to collect a layer of tartrate now too. You can see it resting atop the other sediment, just not as much as the malbec. At crush the Red Mt cab had ideal numbers. no adjusting. The malbec i however did add tartaric. I assume this is the reason for more substantial tartrate dropping out.

Both wines are at 37° currently.
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Ajmassa

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Brought the rosé’s inside last night after 18 days of cold stabilization. They were sitting at 39°. The 9month old malbec had significant tartrate drop out. crystal clear.
3 month old red mountain cab had good bit dropout too. still hazy. Gonna rack off the sediment and hoping it clears up nicely like it’s counterpart. then lysozyme. then adjust/blend if needed. Tho after quick tastes lasts night i don’t believe i’ll be messing with them. Both pleasant. Both unique.
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Ajmassa

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And you were worried about too much color. From here it looks text book perfect.

39F is nice. I could never get mine below mid 40s.
i’ll probably always be worried about that tbh since my 1st two attempts are plenty dark w/ no skins time. one crushed & pressed right away. One strained in the damn parking lot! An extra couple hours woulda made alot darker i bet. Glad i went this route. (despite the fact it may have prevented the cab from finishing dry)

Kinda funny that my attention has been on these few gallons of rosé and not the main primo wines as the mature- which is a convenient byproduct of making saigneé style rosé i’m finding out. 👌

The rosé’s are def fun and all that no doubt, but what i’m really excited for are my fall reds
-The red mt. dry ice cold soak/extended ferment cab. Most expensive grapes i’ve ever purchased. high hopes.
-The 1/3 whole cluster/carbonic maceration 50%zin 25%syrah 12.5% muscat 12.5% petite sirah—“FaMiLy red”
exceeding expectations and morphing into something quite amazing tbh.

How’s that late season overstock Barbara coming along btw? If a winner then you NEED to make that a perennial wine!
 

CDrew

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-The red mt. dry ice cold soak/extended ferment cab. Most expensive grapes i’ve ever purchased. high hopes.
-The 1/3 whole cluster/carbonic maceration 50%zin 25%syrah 12.5% muscat 12.5% petite sirah—“FaMiLy red”
exceeding expectations and morphing into something quite amazing tbh.

How’s that late season overstock Barbara coming along btw? If a winner then you NEED to make that a perennial wine!
I think you have a good handle on your main wines. They will be epic and special. Maybe when bottled in a year or two, we can do a long distance trade. I'd be honored to try either or both.

The Barbera is still hiding in it's 15 gallon keg. I'll rack in a week or three and give an update then. The grapes were so nice and the initial taste was so on point, that I hope I'll be able to pull off a spectacular wine.

The Rose from that even is also aging gracefully and I'll bottle this spring, and hope to drink/share this summer.

I am tasting some of my 2019 Primitivo tonight. It continues to impress. It's young but it's already very good and actually more enjoyable than the 2018 Primitivo. That damn oak thing. It will be hard to get this 2019 to go the distance because I'm afraid we'll drink it up. I need a place to put cases of wine I cant touch for 4 years.
 

Ajmassa

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Wines are back at room temp ~63°. The 3 gal of cab rosé seems like it has started mlf. Steady flow of tiny bubbles right now. But I planned to rack it off the sediment (good amount of light lees, which i left in there intentionally & tartrate fallout from CS)- before adding lysozyme.

Haven’t purchased fresh stuff yet. But i do have some from over 4 years ago. Kept in a jar that I wrapped in the lightblocking material it came in. Seems good enough to me.

Question 1- Is 4 year old lysozyme safe to use?
Question 2 - Before my lysozyme addition- does it make a difference if there’s sediment or not? I’d prefer to rack it off all the junk so it’s not all mixed back into suspension. But since lysozyme requires a racking later- would it make more sense to just leave the sediment in there and rack it off later afterwards to avoid an unnecessary racking ?
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Jay A

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Lysozyme can be used as a fining agent in addition to preventing MLF?
 

Boatboy24

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AJ: have you added sulfite to that rose yet? In addition to the Lysozyme, check the sulfite levels. Even if the Lysozyme isn't working 100%, 50-60ppm of sulfite should at least slow MLF down.
 
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mainshipfred

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AJ, funny you say 4 years, just found this. Of course I can't imagine you kept it at -20 C

4 years

Storage/Stability
The product, as supplied, should be stored at –20 °C. When stored at –20 °C, the enzyme retains activity for at least 4 years. Solutions (pH 4–5) remain active for several weeks if refrigerated.
 

sour_grapes

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AJ, funny you say 4 years, just found this. Of course I can't imagine you kept it at -20 C

4 years

Storage/Stability
The product, as supplied, should be stored at –20 °C. When stored at –20 °C, the enzyme retains activity for at least 4 years. Solutions (pH 4–5) remain active for several weeks if refrigerated.
Well, that is only -4ºF, so it is not out of the question.
 

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