Hello, I’m starting this kit tomorrow and noticed that the kit comes with 3 oak packs French and American. Do I add them all to primary? This is my first RJS kits and never seen 3 packs. Usually you have something to add after stabilization correct? Thanks in advance.
RJS red trio kit
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I haven't done this kit, but, in general, if the oak is sawdust or small chips they go in the primary. If they are cubes, they go in after fermentation is fully complete.
Thats is what I thought. Thanks you
What do the instructions say? RJS has good instructions and the usage of each packet should be identified.
Building upon @cmason1957's comment, there are 2 types of oak: fermentation and aging. These have different purposes and effects on the wine.
In general, fermentation oak is finer grained, e.g., dust, shreds, or small chips -- this presents more surface area which interacts quicker with the wine in the short time frame of fermentation.
Aging oak is generally larger pieces (typically cubes in kits) which acts over a longer term of aging.
Building upon @cmason1957's comment, there are 2 types of oak: fermentation and aging. These have different purposes and effects on the wine.
In general, fermentation oak is finer grained, e.g., dust, shreds, or small chips -- this presents more surface area which interacts quicker with the wine in the short time frame of fermentation.
Aging oak is generally larger pieces (typically cubes in kits) which acts over a longer term of aging.
The instructions are pretty good but I have never seen 3 packs and 2- American and 1-French. They are all powder. I didn’t see anything about adding oak to secondary on the instructions so I figured just for primary. Looks like a great kit hopefully it turns out.
@winemaker81 The instructions just say to add oak packages. Transfer to secondary below 1.020 and to just add pectinase. Step 3: stabilizing includes the normal sulphate/sorbate kieselsol and chitosan plus a finishing blend if included but I do not have that. I’m not bulk aging so not clearing agents. I’m just debating in doing a 14 primary till dry and then secondary or follow the instructions.
@Hypno, it sounds like all fermentation oak.
I don't recommend using the calendar -- let a hydrometer determine when fermentation is done. Personally? I ferment kits to between 1.000 and 1.010. While I've racked at 1.020, that was a specific situation.
I'm not clear on what you mean by not bulk aging? Do you mean not aging beyond the kit guidelines?
I don't recommend using the calendar -- let a hydrometer determine when fermentation is done. Personally? I ferment kits to between 1.000 and 1.010. While I've racked at 1.020, that was a specific situation.
I'm not clear on what you mean by not bulk aging? Do you mean not aging beyond the kit guidelines?
@winemaker81 sorry about that, I hate typing on phones. I meant with the other kits I have left them in primary for 14 days and are usually all dry by then, I stabilized without any fining agents as I always bulk age. This kit is different and calls for a secondary fermentation at 1.020 or less. I’m debating on if I follow this kits instructions because they are different or do as I have done with my winexpert kits. And like I said Bulk aging and letting time clear my wine.
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Do the same as you have done other kits is my advice.
@Hypno, I understand about typing a phone! no problem!
I agree with @cmason1957, treat it like any other kit.
The only reason I can see racking early is because of the fermentation oak. But it makes more sense to use less oak and rack normally, as the kit would cost less to produce.
I agree with @cmason1957, treat it like any other kit.
The only reason I can see racking early is because of the fermentation oak. But it makes more sense to use less oak and rack normally, as the kit would cost less to produce.
When providing general advice, I typically use ranges that fall within the prejudices of our membership, as there are less rebuttals that sidetrack the conversation. Keep in mind there is more than 1 correct answer to most wine making questions, and we should all make our own informed decision. We can disagree without anyone being wrong.
But if you're asking what I do? Ok, keep a pinch of salt handy ...
For kits without skins or for fresh juice, first racking is between 1.000 and 1.010. I do not like to let fermentation complete in the primary, so I rack before then. Given that other priorities can interfere, I rack a bit early to ensure the fermentation is not complete. Fermentation will complete in the carboy.
Some let the fermentation complete, and some may let the wine rest even longer. I don't -- just not comfortable with that, based upon early training and experiences. I want a CO2 cushion at first racking.
For kits with skins or fresh grapes? I target 1.000 for the first racking. I want more skin contact, but also want a solid cap so I can rack free run wine from beneath it, as I run less plain 'ole wine through the press. My target is a happy medium. Again, others go to completion, and there is no problem with that.
At some point, things will not go the way you want. You may make a mistake, or Mother Nature may mess with you. Stuff happens.
Do your best and enjoy yourself! No matter what happens, someone else on this forum has already done it or experienced it. If something doesn't go as planned, help is available.
I've tossed wine that went bad. And I've had 5 gallons of cooking wine -- remember that a lot of faults are covered by boiling the wine as part of a sauce!
But if you're asking what I do? Ok, keep a pinch of salt handy ...
For kits without skins or for fresh juice, first racking is between 1.000 and 1.010. I do not like to let fermentation complete in the primary, so I rack before then. Given that other priorities can interfere, I rack a bit early to ensure the fermentation is not complete. Fermentation will complete in the carboy.
Some let the fermentation complete, and some may let the wine rest even longer. I don't -- just not comfortable with that, based upon early training and experiences. I want a CO2 cushion at first racking.
For kits with skins or fresh grapes? I target 1.000 for the first racking. I want more skin contact, but also want a solid cap so I can rack free run wine from beneath it, as I run less plain 'ole wine through the press. My target is a happy medium. Again, others go to completion, and there is no problem with that.
At some point, things will not go the way you want. You may make a mistake, or Mother Nature may mess with you. Stuff happens.
Do your best and enjoy yourself! No matter what happens, someone else on this forum has already done it or experienced it. If something doesn't go as planned, help is available.
I've tossed wine that went bad. And I've had 5 gallons of cooking wine -- remember that a lot of faults are covered by boiling the wine as part of a sauce!
@winemaker81 thatbis some great advice and will take note of all you have said. One reason why I love this forum is the diverse methods that everyone uses to come to a common goal, make the best wine you can make and have fun along the way. I appreciate everyones input and hope to continue learning. I have always made the old school homemade wines from grapes with my dad and now with my limited space and time I have ventured into kits...thanks again.
I make the RJS Winemakers Trio Red all the time. It is a great kit ....especially after a year or so of aging.
The only thing I do different is substitute the EC1118 with BM4x4 and do small regimen of nutrient additions for the BM4x4.
The only thing I do different is substitute the EC1118 with BM4x4 and do small regimen of nutrient additions for the BM4x4.
I'm getting ready to start this kit as well, so interesting to read everyone's thoughts.
Keep us posted, I’m curious how this one will turn out. Right now my airlock is going like crazy on day two and the aroma in the room is awesome.
No, you can let it go dry before racking off the skins.
Sorbate is only for back-sweetening and not needed for a dry wine.
