Riledup5 Pinot Noir Question (WinExpert Kit)

[sour_grapes]

Chinook, I tested the hydrometer and it was accurate with plain ol' tap water.

The instructions you scanned said to rack into a carboy when SG is between 1.010 and 1.020. I am now wondering what the purpose of the secondary is? Why not leave it in the primary until fermentation is complete? Maybe because you have to open the primary to test the SG and therefore exposing it to more O2 than necessary?

The purpose of using a carboy (secondary fermentation vessel) is to limit the contact of air (read: O2) with the wine. At that stage of the game, oxygen is bad for your wine. A bucket has a large area and a large headspace, and O2 can get to your wine.

 

[Riledup5]

The purpose of using a carboy (secondary fermentation vessel) is to limit the contact of air (read: O2) with the wine. At that stage of the game, oxygen is bad for your wine. A bucket has a large area and a large headspace, and O2 can get to your wine.

Thank you Grapes. That was my thought. If you are using a "closed" primary (i.e.- a primary with an airlock rather than a loose lid) does it really matter? I would assume there is enough CO2 in the primary in a system like that where the CO2 pushes the O2 out. My thought on that though, when you open that "closed" system to measure the SG is there enough CO2 still being generated toward the end of fermentation to push the O2 that entered the system when it was opened to push that O2 out? I have been known to overthink things

 

[sour_grapes]

I think you have it more or less correct. But airlocking a bucket is kind of a pain, and they don't alway seal so well. Why do you want NOT to rack to a vessel with a more appropriate form (i.e., with a neck) at the time when your fermentation slows down? What do you hope to gain by leaving it in the bucket?

 

[Riledup5]

I think you have it more or less correct. But airlocking a bucket is kind of a pain, and they don't alway seal so well. Why do you want NOT to rack to a vessel with a more appropriate form (i.e., with a neck) at the time when your fermentation slows down? What do you hope to gain by leaving it in the bucket?

Yo Grapes.... 3 dot pun intended (see other thread).

It's not that I am trying to gain anything. I am just trying to gain understanding. Not sure why airlocking a primary is "kind of a pain". The primary that came with my beginners kit is not a pain at all (Big Mouth Bubbler) (how I hate that name). Help me out with that thought please.

It's not that I don't want to rack, I am just trying to gain an understanding. If the "Big Mouth Bubbler" is a "closed" primary, is there really a point? The only point I can see is that you still have to open that closed system to measure the SG. I don't know if opening that primary "Big Mouth Bubbler" would let too much O2 in. Hope that makes sense

 

[Khristyjeff]

Man, if it's not one thing, it's another. I went to start a Sauv Blanc kit and when I cleaned the primary (they call it the Big Mouth Bubbler) that I bought as part of a kit from MasterVintner, I noticed this flaw on the bottom of the primary. I don't recall it being there for the other 2 kits that I started. Any idea what this might be from?View attachment 71098

I believe that is where they pour the plastic into the mold for the Bubbler. At least that's what I thought when I saw it on mine. Nothing to be worried about, in my opinion.

 

[my wine]

There are a number of folks that do primary and secondary fermentation in the bucket. Some kit instructions tell you to rack it into a carboy for secondary while other kit instructions imply that you leave it in the bucket until fermentation is complete, .996 or less. There is a risk of O2 entering the bucket when doing secondary fermentation in there as sour grapes mentioned even as CO2 continues to be released. There is also a risk of O2 interaction if you rack the must from the primary bucket to the O2 filled secondary carboy. I don't pretend to know what the risk is in either approach.

Personally, I leave mine in the bucket until it's finished. I try to catch the SG at 1.03 to 1.02, add any yeast nutrients or whatever, then seal the bucket with an airlock. Then I watch the bubbles. With my set up and equipment it seems easy for me. You can decide what works for you depending on what you have and where you see more risk. You can even alternate approaches depending on what you are making if that situation arises. Hope this helps.

 

[sour_grapes]

When the must is undergoing active fermentation, you want access to it to check SG (as you have said a few times) and to "punch down" the cap of the fruit of whatever you are fermenting. Also, at this point, oxygen is not a danger. There is not much alcohol to oxidize, and the active fermentation is blowing CO2 out to protect the wine anyway.

As the fermentation slows down, you get less protection from the CO2 production, and you have more alcohol that you want to protect from aerobic acetobacteria. Thus, you transfer to a carboy, usually at 1.010 +/- say 0.010.

 

[Riledup5]

When the must is undergoing active fermentation, you want access to it to check SG (as you have said a few times) and to "punch down" the cap of the fruit of whatever you are fermenting. Also, at this point, oxygen is not a danger. There is not much alcohol to oxidize, and the active fermentation is blowing CO2 out to protect the wine anyway.

As the fermentation slows down, you get less protection from the CO2 production, and you have more alcohol that you want to protect from aerobic acetobacteria. Thus, you transfer to a carboy, usually at 1.010 +/- say 0.010.

When the must is undergoing active fermentation, you want access to it to check SG (as you have said a few times) and to "punch down" the cap of the fruit of whatever you are fermenting. Also, at this point, oxygen is not a danger. There is not much alcohol to oxidize, and the active fermentation is blowing CO2 out to protect the wine anyway.

As the fermentation slows down, you get less protection from the CO2 production, and you have more alcohol that you want to protect from aerobic acetobacteria. Thus, you transfer to a carboy, usually at 1.010 +/- say 0.010.

That is an ah-ha moment. Thanks. My ah-ha was two-fold. 1) It is the alcohol (not other stuff) that is affected by the O2. 2) The point about acetobacter

Thanks a ton...

 

[winemaker81]

Why we do what we do is just as important as what and how.

I typically rack whites, fruits, and kits between 1.010 and 1.000, and reds just below 1.000 (want more skin contact). From there the wine goes into carboys and jugs with a fair amount of head space. The fermentation is slower but still active -- the head space allows room so I don't experience a volcano. [This is the voice of experience!]

At that point I safely ignore the wine for a week or so, as I do not need to check it. The active fermentation maintains a CO2 cushion so the wine is safe for a while after fermentation completes.

One reason for this is that I don't have to check the SG every day, wondering if it's done. I typically check on Day 4, then every 1 or 2 days, depending on the level of activity. I may not check daily until the SG reaches 1.020.

The key point for me is free time. Early in my wine making career I worked long hours during the week, so wine making time was on weekends. Start a wine on Saturday, first racking the following Saturday or Sunday, second racking the following Saturday or Sunday. This wasn't a perfect solution, as the yeast obviously didn't read my calendar, but 98% of the time it was fine.

My schedule is no longer intensive, but the process I developed works, so I keep doing it. Besides, when pressing fresh grapes, having a bit of activity keeps the cap firmly on top, so I can rack free run wine from beneath it. This means less going into the press, which is less labor for me.