Red Wine Flavor from Country Fruits

Discussion in 'Country Fruit Winemaking' started by Shane Evans, Oct 26, 2018.

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  1. Oct 26, 2018 #1

    Shane Evans

    Shane Evans

    Shane Evans

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    Hi!

    I’m new to this forum but have been lurking and learning as much as I can before jumping in to ask. I’d like to start by saying thank you to everyone for all the great info!

    Here is my predicament, I cannot get access to grapes nor grape juice. And I’m looking to make only country wines from fruits because I have access to lots of different tropical types but none are grapes and I cannot get access to them. This being said, my wife and I really enjoy Red wines. Can anyone suggest a way to create something similar to a Cabernet or Syrah?
    I have made both red wines and fruit wines in the past but I’ve never tried anything this in depth
    I know it is complex and I’m not looking for a perfect match but I want to shoot for that classic red table wine flavor profile of possible. I was thinking of using dates or something similar but I truly have no idea. If I need to create multiple wines and blend them I’m ok with that too.

    Thanks in advance!
    Shane
     
  2. Oct 27, 2018 #2

    Stressbaby

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    OK to be clear, you are looking for tropical fruit that will result in something like a typical red wine, is that correct?
     
  3. Oct 27, 2018 #3

    Shane Evans

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    Stressbaby,

    Yes, that is correct. Or some combination of tropical fruits to create something similar.
     
  4. Oct 27, 2018 #4

    Masbustelo

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    Do you have access to
    Syzygium cumini? It has many different common names.In Goa and the Philippines, jambolans are an important source of wine, somewhat like Port. If you do I can tell you how to make wine from them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  5. Oct 27, 2018 #5

    Stressbaby

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    I grow various Syzygium species, but not that one. Looks promising. I grow related Eugenia brasiliensis (purple grumichama) but doesn't produce enough fruit for me to make any wine.

    I was going to suggest Plinia cauliflora or Myrciaria cauliflora, more commonly known as jaboticaba or Brazilian grape. You won't find any good "modern" wine recipes online but Youtube has some videos on jaboticaba winemaking - all in Portuguese. This is my favorite: Here's another:

    I've been collecting my jaboticaba fruit and freezing it last few years and I'm close to having enough for a batch. If you've ever eaten one you know the skins can be bitter (at least for me). If you decide to try it post back here so we can discuss techniques.
     
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  6. Oct 27, 2018 #6

    Stressbaby

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    Also, you could post back with the fruits you DO have access to and maybe we can make suggestions. I've made several different tropical fruit wines (starfruit/carambola, guava, citrus, banana, loquat, passion fruit) and sampled several others.
     
  7. Oct 27, 2018 #7

    Johnd

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    I’ve heard, but not personally verified, that wine made from straight blackberries is very Cabernet Sauvignon - like. If you have access to blackberries, and someone who’s made it can verify, could be worth exploring.
     
  8. Oct 27, 2018 #8

    Shane Evans

    Shane Evans

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    Masbustelo,

    Thank you for the suggestion. I may have access to that I’m not sure what it would be here.
    I’d love to see the recipe.

    Stressbaby,
    Thank you for the videos!
    Here is a ‘short’ list of what I have access to.
    Banana, Breadfruit, Caimito, cherry, Coconut, Dragonfruit, Grapefruit, Lemon, Lime, Longan,Lychee, Mango, Orange, Papaya, passionfruit, pineapple, Pomegranate, Pomelo, Soursop, Star Fruit , Rambutan, Tamarind , Tangelo, Tangerine, guava, jackfruit, coffee cherry, fig, sapote, Brazilian cherry, loquat, plum.
     
  9. Oct 27, 2018 #9

    Shane Evans

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    Blackberries are a bit tougher to get here. They are wild but not many farms grow blackberries.

    Good thinking on the blackberry. I have had blackberry wine but it’s a sweeter profile than something like a table red.
     
  10. Oct 27, 2018 #10

    Shane Evans

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    Stressbaby,

    Looks like I can get some jaboticaba. How much do you think Is needed for a 5 gallon batch?
     
  11. Oct 27, 2018 #11

    Johnd

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    Fresh picked from the wild would be best anyway, and it doesn’t have to be sweet if fermented dry, unless you decide to sweeten it.
     
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  12. Oct 27, 2018 #12

    Scooter68

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    Correct - a good blackberry juice to start with and you can add sweetener only if you want a stronger flavor. AND wild blackberries are the best - way better than those bloated commercial things.
     
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  13. Oct 27, 2018 #13

    Masbustelo

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    Shane Regarding the Syzygium Cumini. You won't find it in the markets. It fruits twice a year. The trees are large with lots of foliage. When they are fruiting the trees are loaded with fruit. Pick them when they are ripe. Mix them 50-50 with water by volume. The specific gravity will be low. You will have to add sugar or honey to your desired gravity. Also you will probably need to add acid at the time of fermentation to bring them into a proper Ph range for long term storage. I made some once with K1V-1116 yeast. I didnt age it, but served it after ferment. It had a beautiful color and people loved it.
     
  14. Oct 27, 2018 #14

    Shane Evans

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    Masbustelo,

    I asked around and can definitely get Syzygium Cumini. I didn’t realize it is almost invasive. We also have Strawberry guava that grows like crazy. My neighbors will likely pay me to remove the trees if I wanted them. Ha

    Thanks for the recipe!

    If you had to compare it to another wine, what do you think it would it be closest to?
     
  15. Oct 27, 2018 #15

    Stressbaby

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    I've made it that way several times and to me it is quite different. Higher acid and different acid profile mean that as a dry wine it doesn't stand up. It really needs residual sugar to be balanced, and with that sugar it's unmistakably blackberry. Also, the color doesn't stand up as well, often gets sort of brick colored, even with strict attention to light exposure, SO2, etc.

    This looks pretty promising if you can get enough fruit.

    I've made strawberry guava a few times. I use 6#/gallon and the wine is better with a little white grape concentrate if you can get it. Here is the recipe from my last batch, 3 gal:
    • 18.5# strawberry guava
    • 46oz can white grape concentrate
    • 1720g sugar
    • Nutrient and energizer
    • 6t pectic
    • 10g citric acid
    • 10g tartaric acid
    • 5g bentonite in primary
    • 8.5qt water
    Don't leave on the seeds/skins too long, the seeds will impart bitterness. So 5 days, maybe 7 max on the seeds/skins. The color ends up sort of a dark salmon color, not a standard white/rosé, so if you want it more bright pink, maybe toss in some jabos or the dark Syzygium.

    I'm guessing obviously, never having made it before. Straight juice (no added water) is what you see in the videos, means 12-14#/gallon. If I wait that long I won't make it for another decade so I'm aiming for minimum 5#/gallon. I don't normally sample the wine during the soak/ferment but in this case I probably will, looking for the point where color is maximized but getting the skins off the moment I sense any bitterness.

    Great options here. None are "red wine" of course. I've made very good wine from passion fruit and star fruit. You don't need much star fruit for a gallon, in fact it is easy to overshoot; it ferments very fast (3 days) and flavor/aroma profile holds up very well. Good place to start. Passion fruit wine works better with a cooler, slower ferment and a secondary infusion but nice wine when done well. Lots of online info on mango wine, won't comment on that here. I have made loquat, you can find recipes, didn't knock my socks off.

    I'm collecting Brazilian cherry, I'm very close to having an adequate supply for a batch, and I'll probably make this wine this winter. Pomegranate can make great wine it's just a PITA getting rid of all of the pith. Jackfruit would be worth a try for sure. Finally, I'd LOVE to make a wine from rambutan. I think the sugar levels and flavor complexity could yield an awesome wine. There are some places in Australia doing this commercially.

    Personally I'd skip all of the citrus. Sapotes I'm guessing will leave you with tons of pulp, better off leaving those for smoothies. I think dragonfruit is too mild probably to make great wine.
     
  16. Oct 27, 2018 #16

    Masbustelo

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    Shane I can't tell you what the mature Syzygium Cumini is similar to because I wasn't able to age it. You will find it is high in tannins, and if you get the Ph right you will find that it is well worth making. My guess is that of the tropical fruits that it (Syzygium Cumini )and the jaboticaba are the two fruits you should be looking at. Using proper wine making parameters you should end up with something you will be pleased with. Please keep us posted as you go go along.
     
  17. Oct 27, 2018 #17

    Shane Evans

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    Stressbaby,

    Thank you for the detailed answers! I’m excited to see what this ends up tasting like. I hear that lychee makes a really nice wine and I’m guessing Rambutan will too. I hear that processing the fruit is a bit difficult though.

    Star fruit interests me as well.

    I’m wondering what jack fruit would produce in its early stage? I know it is widely used for vegan pulled pork. Could be interesting. But the nose will likely be disgusting.
     
  18. Oct 27, 2018 #18

    Shane Evans

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    Masbustelo thank you for this. I agree I think that those are my two best options based on lots of other research from your suggestion.I think having the skins will be beneficial to the flavor. Throwing in some okra or other wood chips will likely bring out some of the stuff that I want to focus on with red wines. I’ll keep everyone posted on what I come up with thank you again!
     
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