Recommended Levels for TA, PH, SO2

[thesnow]

Question.. Do I use the same recommended levels as White wine when making Rose wine?

Example:
Red Wine, range from 3.4 to 3.65 ph
??Rose Wine, range from 3.1 to 3.45 ph ??
White Wine, range from 3.1 to 3.45 ph

 

[altavino]

yes , a rose should be a bit crisp like a white wine. especially if sweetening it,

 

[Turock]

I agree. You might like to try the procedure we use. When you are adjusting the PH at the primary, be sure to taste the samples. When you get the PH in a range where the flavor is excellent, stop at that point. A range of 3.1 to 3.4 is a LOT of range!!! Somewhere, in there, is the "sweet" spot for the type of grapes,fruit,or style of wine you're making and that's what you're trying to find while moving the PH. Always let your taste buds guide you when you're adjusting PH.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Question.. Do I use the same recommended levels as White wine when making Rose wine?

Example:
Red Wine, range from 3.4 to 3.65 ph
??Rose Wine, range from 3.1 to 3.45 ph ??
White Wine, range from 3.1 to 3.45 ph

I have a problem with the above example from a pragmatic approach to making wine. While I don't see any problem with the ranges listed what I find troubling is how that can be misinterpreted into doing something in the way of adjusting that can be detrimental to the wine. Ph is determined by the conditions of the vineyard, the grape ripeness and the growing conditions. The range of Ph is wide for what really matters, the health and the aging quality of the wine. The suggestion to taste a juice at the beginning and adjust ph from that requires much skill and experience working with the same fruit each time. It would take quite a pallet to determine if the unfermented juice tasted better at 3.3 or 3.2. So while taste is the most important thing, in that regard, I would not be adjusting any PH if the Must was in a safe range or close to the ones that you provided above. For example if you crushed a Chardonnay and it was a ph of 3.6 and a TA of .60 I would not be adjusting anything until the end of fermentation. Where then taste would guide me not numbers. Then if I bench tested a few samples of the wine with various additions of tartaric to lower the ph and raise the TA then the one I picked would be on taste. Where the numbers ended up on the one I picked would be just numbers and not that important at all. Even if the one I picked was not in the range you provided above.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

I have a problem with the above example from a pragmatic approach to making wine. While I don't see any problem with the ranges listed what I find troubling is how that can be misinterpreted into doing something in the way of adjusting that can be detrimental to the wine. Ph is determined by the conditions of the vineyard, the grape ripeness and the growing conditions. The range of Ph is wide for what really matters, the health and the aging quality of the wine. The suggestion to taste a juice at the beginning and adjust ph from that requires much skill and experience working with the same fruit each time. It would take quite a pallet to determine if the unfermented juice tasted better at 3.3 or 3.2. So while taste is the most important thing, in that regard, I would not be adjusting any PH if the Must was in a safe range or close to the ones that you provided above. For example if you crushed a Chardonnay and it was a ph of 3.6 and a TA of .60 I would not be adjusting anything until the end of fermentation. Where then taste would guide me not numbers. Then if I bench tested a few samples of the wine with various additions of tartaric to lower the ph and raise the TA then the one I picked would be on taste. Where the numbers ended up on the one I picked would be just numbers and not that important at all. Even if the one I picked was not in the range you provided above.
Malvina

Thanks, I need to start learning how to do simple bench tests..

 

[thesnow]

I made a simple chart. I seem to be forgetting when I need to have an idea for TA, PH, SO2 for different wines. Let me know if this is off..

View attachment RecommLevelsTA.doc.pdf

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

OK lets use your chart . You have a red wine that has a ph 3.85 and a Ta of .60 and you like how it tastes. What are you going to do with your chart?

 

[thesnow]

If the wine taste good, I will forget the chart and drink the wine.
If the free SO2 is close to 40 ppm and not lower, I wouldn't correct anything.

(I'm fairly new at this, so don't be shy... if need be.. shot the messenger)

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Exactly! As far as the So2 you will need more than 40 ppm at 3.85 get a chart for that
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

On another thread member BobF, showed me if I wanted to correct my wine's TA, on how do a bench test. But I didn't follow though, because the wine tasted good, but this time I would like to try it , and to learn..

Bench Testing:
Mix: 5g tartaric acid in 100ml distilled water. This is 5% solution. Each ML you add to your wine sample is a .5g/L or .05 %) If TA is 5.6 and you add 2ml your sample becomes TA 6.6
Measure 100ml of your wine
adding 5g = 5% tartaric acid solution into your 100ml of wine sample, and taste it.

I have now in reality Cabernet Sauvignon PH 3.75 , TA 5.6 g/L , SO2 38 ppm
The wine tastes good, so I made no adjustments, I went ahead an bottle my 23L carboy.
I now have another 23L carboy with the same results and would like to correct the TA

Question? do I need to use the 100ml wine sample for a bench test. Can I use less wine , say 50ML of Wine so I can do two tests says 5% and 10% solution to taste the difference or its really recommended 100ml of wine to taste the difference?

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

It does not matter as long as you have enough to taste. And adjust the math. For those with a small amount of total wine then this is a good way of doing it. I usually just adjust a gallon or 5 gallons using just tartaric but I can always blend it in the rest which could be a total of 30 - 60 gallons or more. From experience raising the TA by .05 increments and tasting is how I approach it and then when I like it I can test the PH. Hopefully I don't have to exceed .1 additions in the TA or the most .2 but I have on some occasions.
Malvina

 

[thesnow]

I finally did my first bench test, raising the TA from 5.6 to 6.6. I added the 2ml solution to the 100ml of wine. Tasting the wine, I found the wine to bitter. So I did another sample adding only 1ml, found much less bitter than 2ml. Conclusion: the wine is better as is with no correction.

Thanks

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

There you go!
Malvina