Recommendations for Next Season OVZ & Super Tuscan Yeast

[Mac60]

I would love to hear from winemakers who have used Avante yeast vs a split batch combined after pressing, 2 yeasts specifically are D254 and & D80 Its a bit more work splitting the batches, Is it worth it in the end?
Why you like Advante? What do you compare it to in flavor?
How does the young finished wine compare? (Advante Vs D254 & D80 blended?)
I know that Avante advantage is no So2 gas, however with Ferm-K schedule that was not an issue for me absolutely no So2 gas, even with running hot for a few days.

I have been told by several wine makers that they only use Advante now mainly due to the So2 issues they had before.
I was thinking about giving Avante a go next season but besides the So2 issues what if any are the advantages. This year I was really happy with D254 and D80 over what I had used in the past.
Last year I did have So2 issues gas big time with RC212
Thanks
Mike

 

[CDrew]

I hate to see you get no replies. I have not done your comparison.

But I have used D254 last year on my Primitivo and used Avante this year on 30 gallons of Petite Sirah. Both yeasts are good work horse yeasts.

My take is that H2S is the biggest potential threat to us home/garage based wine makers, at least during alcoholic fermentation. And just because you did well this year. does not mean next will be H2S free. I learned last year H2S is a major problem when my most experienced wine making friend had H2S in 25 gallons, after 6 previous years of no problems. Same grape source. And he's got a nutrient protocol, good sterile technique and the whole thing.

So, for what its worth, is that there is no downside to the Avante yeast, and one huge upside which is absolutely no H2S. So it's hard to argue for anything else unless there is some magical flavor unlocked by D254/80/21/Pasture Rouge, etc. Which maybe there is, but to me, last year's 254 fermented wine tastes like wine. Not magic wine with a special secret.

In just 3 years I've so far avoided the H2S thing, but that could just be random good luck. Where as with Avante, it isn't random or luck, it's just built in genetically and part of the package. And remember it has other desirable attributes too. It metabolizes Malic acid, it's a fast fermenter, tolerates 17% alcohol, and it supposedly has low to medium nutrient requirements.

So that's my take. Yeast isn't magic, pick one you can work with, take care of it, and try and avoid disasters. The Avante takes one of the disasters off the table.

Good luck going forward. Test it on some frozen must this winter if you want to see it work. I was quite impressed with the lack of drama.

 

[Ajmassa]

Glad you posted this. I’m extremely curious to hear what some others have to say. My last 2 batches I did exactly as you said. The D80/254 combo in May, and now Avante.
The high tolerances were a very comforting feeling with Avante. When dosing nutrients I felt like there wasn’t any mistake I coulda made to jack it up. The ferment smelled like the typical first few days- but for the entire length. Also comforting.
It eats up 30% of malic acid too lightening the load for your added malolactic bacteria.
Also heard a Napa winemakers opinion in a podcast that if your making a big red and plan on barrel aging for over a year plus another in the bottle, that the characteristics gained from yeast tend to fade becoming undetectable and the natural profile and tannin with the oak and micro ox eventually take the wine over in time anyway.
Making wine at home and experimenting with yeast is fun. And being confident of a stress free healthy and dry ferment is also nice— and kinda allows for other types of experimenting (like ml co-innoc, diff fermentation tannin, oak chips, temp control attempts, extended maceration, whole cluster, etc...) with less concern over a stressed ferment.
0% chance of h2s is huge. I understand bad cases it can linger for a long time, and take some work to fully remove. Won’t be using Avante exclusively- but definitely gonna be an option from here on out.
@4score recently posted his account of trying non-sacc yeast for the first few Brix before pitching Avante. Was very interesting. We are due for an update from him too.

 

[Mac60]

I hate to see you get no replies. I have not done your comparison.

But I have used D254 last year on my Primitivo and used Avante this year on 30 gallons of Petite Sirah. Both yeasts are good work horse yeasts.

My take is that H2S is the biggest potential threat to us home/garage based wine makers, at least during alcoholic fermentation. And just because you did well this year. does not mean next will be H2S free. I learned last year H2S is a major problem when my most experienced wine making friend had H2S in 25 gallons, after 6 previous years of no problems. Same grape source. And he's got a nutrient protocol, good sterile technique and the whole thing.

So, for what its worth, is that there is no downside to the Avante yeast, and one huge upside which is absolutely no H2S. So it's hard to argue for anything else unless there is some magical flavor unlocked by D254/80/21/Pasture Rouge, etc. Which maybe there is, but to me, last year's 254 fermented wine tastes like wine. Not magic wine with a special secret.

In just 3 years I've so far avoided the H2S thing, but that could just be random good luck. Where as with Avante, it isn't random or luck, it's just built in genetically and part of the package. And remember it has other desirable attributes too. It metabolizes Malic acid, it's a fast fermenter, tolerates 17% alcohol, and it supposedly has low to medium nutrient requirements.

So that's my take. Yeast isn't magic, pick one you can work with, take care of it, and try and avoid disasters. The Avante takes one of the disasters off the table.

Good luck going forward. Test it on some frozen must this winter if you want to see it work. I was quite impressed with the lack of drama.

Thanks CDrew,
I actually called Lodi Labs and had a conversation with someone there forgot his name, real nice and knowledgeable, I picked his brain on different yeasts and Advante because as you stated there are some advantages, he didn't have a preference on one over the other, he just said if you keep proper nutrients you shouldn't have a So2 issue. Kinda surprised me since he was the only one selling Advante that I could find. He more or less said pick one that suits your grapes and feed it nutrients and you should be good.
But like you mentioned there's no downside, good advice Thanks
Mike

 

[Mac60]

Glad you posted this. I’m extremely curious to hear what some others have to say. My last 2 batches I did exactly as you said. The D80/254 combo in May, and now Avante.
The high tolerances were a very comforting feeling with Avante. When dosing nutrients I felt like there wasn’t any mistake I coulda made to jack it up. The ferment smelled like the typical first few days- but for the entire length. Also comforting.
It eats up 30% of malic acid too lightening the load for your added malolactic bacteria.
Also heard a Napa winemakers opinion in a podcast that if your making a big red and plan on barrel aging for over a year plus another in the bottle, that the characteristics gained from yeast tend to fade becoming undetectable and the natural profile and tannin with the oak and micro ox eventually take the wine over in time anyway.
Making wine at home and experimenting with yeast is fun. And being confident of a stress free healthy and dry ferment is also nice— and kinda allows for other types of experimenting (like ml co-innoc, diff fermentation tannin, oak chips, temp control attempts, extended maceration, whole cluster, etc...) with less concern over a stressed ferment.
0% chance of h2s is huge. I understand bad cases it can linger for a long time, and take some work to fully remove. Won’t be using Avante exclusively- but definitely gonna be an option from here on out.
@4score recently posted his account of trying non-sacc yeast for the first few Brix before pitching Avante. Was very interesting. We are due for an update from him too.

AJ, Thanks
I have been hearing the same advice as you as far as yeast characteristics in wine that is aged. As a matter of fact right from the guy at Lodi labs.

 

[Donz]

Another question about the Avante yeast... Is it compatible with MLF co-inoculation?

 

[Ajmassa]

Another question about the Avante yeast... Is it compatible with MLF co-inoculation?

Yessir. At least in theory. It doesn’t say it specifically. I just did it 2 weeks ago. But it has high tolerances and low So2 production. And also low nutrient need- which I would think helps by not having the yeast steal nutrients from the mlb or vice versa during AF.
I don’t theres a yeast for reds that isn’t. Some are just more ideal than others.

 

[CDrew]

I co-inoculated my Petite Sirah/Avante as well with this year's protocol of adding the CH16 24 hours after the cap formed. So I added on October 8 and it's basically done now. Going to wait until 30 days then will sulfite and oak after testing. Last year I added the CH16 when racking off the gross lees and it took a lot longer to finish up. The wine was good to drink immediately after press.
'

And BTW I was just at Lodi Wine Labs and they have a huge table in the middle of the store PILED with 500 gm pouches of virtually every yeast you can imagine. Their fridges have smaller 8gm and 80 gm pouches of every yeast. Really a comprehensive supply at any level of wine making.