Quantcast

Racking

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
My Red wine appears to have finished fermenting, it doesnt taste bad :) . I do not plan to do a MLF this year as I cant buy any MLF products on my island . I understand I now need to rack my wine and add more sulphate at 50ppm

How many different ways of Racking are there ?
How many different ways of filtering are there ?

I read splash racking removes sulphates, is this desirable?

Vacuum Racking requires me to buy a pump, which is not immediately available on this island. How soon after the end of primary fermentation is racking necessary to avoid the wine spoiling, do I have 3 weeks to play with on delivery of a pump?
Siphoning, would be easy with my set up!

After primary fermentation am I better storing my wine in large glass jars with little air space at the top, or the barrel I used to conduct the primary fermentation which was about 3/4 full, ie a lot of air space?

By what chemical process does splash racking remove or neutralize SO2 ????
 

CDrew

California Garagiste
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
793
Reaction score
1,021
Location
Sacramento Metro
Splash racking is something you do to remove H2S (hydrogen sulfide). Otherwise, don't do it. Because you're adding oxygen, it will cause the wine to consume more SO2.

You don't want to neutralize SO2, you want the proper amount to help preserve your wine.
 

Chuck E

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
471
Reaction score
404
Location
Chicago burbs
@Handy Andy The rule of thumb, is to rack 3 days after the primary fermentation is completed and the wine is in the secondary. Then rack 3 weeks after that, and then 3 months after that. You can rack simply by siphoning the wine from one container to the other, no pump required (just a hose). On the first racking try to leave the residue on the bottom. This helps to clear the wine. You want to put 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons of potassium meta bisulfite (K-meta) in the second racking to protect the wine from oxidation.
 

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
Thanks all for the replies.

Does anyone have an opinion on the air space above the wine after racking ?
Should I minimize it, or is the wine still ok at this stage covered with a towel, or with a lid on the tank, until my next racking?
 

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
620
Reaction score
480
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
Once fermentation is complete, you do not want any significant air space. During fermentation, the wine is emitting CO2, so you have a barrier against air. Once the CO2 is gone, the barrier is gone. The oxygen in the air is your enemy -- your wine can oxidize, which is the wine version of rust.

Depending on your container, a few inches of space is fine. If you have more space than that, either top up with a similar wine, or find a smaller container.
 

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
Once fermentation is complete, you do not want any significant air space. During fermentation, the wine is emitting CO2, so you have a barrier against air. Once the CO2 is gone, the barrier is gone. The oxygen in the air is your enemy -- your wine can oxidize, which is the wine version of rust.

Depending on your container, a few inches of space is fine. If you have more space than that, either top up with a similar wine, or find a smaller container.
Thanks, now racking to a stainless container with a floating lid. Hope my wine hasnt spoiled already.
 

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
620
Reaction score
480
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
Thanks, now racking to a stainless container with a floating lid. Hope my wine hasnt spoiled already.
Oxidation doesn't happen all that quickly. A few days with a large head space is not likely to produce a serious problem. If it was an open container where bacteria in the air contact the wine? Yeah, that's (IMO) a bigger problem.

Please note that I am NOT recommending a large head space -- I try to keep it small, within a few inches of the wine. Just saying that if you had a large space for a few days, it's nothing to get too upset about.

Besides, those first few batches of wine typically have a much shorter shelf like than you expect .... due to consumption, not spoilage. It's part of the fun of wine making.
 

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
Oxidation doesn't happen all that quickly. A few days with a large head space is not likely to produce a serious problem. If it was an open container where bacteria in the air contact the wine? Yeah, that's (IMO) a bigger problem.

Please note that I am NOT recommending a large head space -- I try to keep it small, within a few inches of the wine. Just saying that if you had a large space for a few days, it's nothing to get too upset about.

Besides, those first few batches of wine typically have a much shorter shelf like than you expect .... due to consumption, not spoilage. It's part of the fun of wine making.
With my stainless barrel I have reduced the head space to zero and fitted an air lock.

Up/Down side being I cant lift it back onto the shelf as it is heavier and less manageable than my smaller plastic barrel. So I will have to invite my friends around to help me lift it back onto the bench again before the next racking. The wine will no doubt undergo another tasting when this done.

We did out of curiosity put the remains of yesterdays rackings into a muslin bag and tried that lastnight. Except for the cloudy appearance it wasnt bad at all. We have no side effects this morning and are very optimistic of achieving a good end product.

My white wine when it finishes fermenting is going to be racked into 5 litre bottles and corked, should I fit air locks in each bottle or not??
 

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
620
Reaction score
480
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
Up/Down side being I cant lift it back onto the shelf as it is heavier and less manageable than my smaller plastic barrel.
I'm thinking of investing in the All-In-One wine pump. It's a bit to spend, but if I have that I can put my barrel on the floor, and may buy a second one.

My white wine when it finishes fermenting is going to be racked into 5 litre bottles and corked, should I fit air locks in each bottle or not??
If fermentation is totally complete and the wine is degassed, you can use something other than an airlock. Screwcaps work, but if you have residual gas, you'll build pressure. Probably not dangerous, but I'd be cautious. I very occasionally use screwcaps when I'm 110% sure the wine is degassed.

I have switched to vented bungs for my carboys. This eliminates checking the water level in the airlocks. My son managed to get a bung in a 4 liter jug ... so you may want to consider it.
 

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
I'm thinking of investing in the All-In-One wine pump. It's a bit to spend, but if I have that I can put my barrel on the floor, and may buy a second one.
What do you mean by an all in one pump?
Does it include filters of some sort?
Do you have a model in mind?

I have switched to vented bungs for my carboys. This eliminates checking the water level in the airlocks. My son managed to get a bung in a 4 liter jug ... so you may want to consider it.
I have not found any vented bungs on my island yet, so am thinking of drilling some corks and inserting a small coiled tube into them and filling them with water. Is there any way this might be a bad idea ie not work?

--------------------------------

I racked my white wine yesterday! , and it does not taste bad, yeah!

My wife asks should it be that cloudy after its racked? I note the first bottles I racked are much clearer than the last bottles. The later bottles are slowly clearing but leaving a little sediment on the bottom of the bottles.

Just how much cloudiness or sediment should I expect after the first racking?

How much of the wine in the bottom of the barrels do people discard at the first racking ??
 

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
620
Reaction score
480
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
All-In-One wine pump is a specific product, a vacuum pump that degasses while racking. It's a bit on the pricey side (IMO) but it will enable me to rack from a barrel on the ground.

Drilling a cork, inserting a coiled tube, and filling with water is an airlock. As long as it's air tight, that's perfectly fine.

Your wine may be cloudy for months -- I'd be astounded if it wasn't cloudy at the first racking.

There is no one answer to "how much wine is lost at racking?". There are many factors, including the fruit type, the yeast used, how it was pressed, plus more.

To reduce loss, I tilt the container at an angle and carefully rack in the lower part. When you start sucking sediment, stop racking. Some folks throw away the remainder, but I typically pour it into a tall, narrow container and refrigerate for a week. You'd be surprised at how much wine you can recover in this fashion, although it varies. I've had what looked like total sludge compact to less than 2" in a 1.5 liter bottle, and I've had only 1" of clear wine at the top after a week.

However, whatever you recover is wine you'd otherwise have thrown away.
 

sour_grapes

Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
11,422
Reaction score
9,569
Location
near Milwaukee
What do you mean by an all in one pump?
Does it include filters of some sort?
Do you have a model in mind?
See here: Wine Pump | All in One Wine Pump The owner, @vacuumpumpman , is a forum regular.

I have not found any vented bungs on my island yet, so am thinking of drilling some corks and inserting a small coiled tube into them and filling them with water. Is there any way this might be a bad idea ie not work?
Sounds like a fine idea. Some people just dip the tubes from many vessels down into a bucket of water.

I racked my white wine yesterday! , and it does not taste bad, yeah!

My wife asks should it be that cloudy after its racked? I note the first bottles I racked are much clearer than the last bottles. The later bottles are slowly clearing but leaving a little sediment on the bottom of the bottles.

Just how much cloudiness or sediment should I expect after the first racking?

How much of the wine in the bottom of the barrels do people discard at the first racking ??
Yay! Glad to hear it is pas mal. Yes, there can be a LOT of cloudiness initially. It should settle down with time.

You can put the leftover mixture of wine and lees into another container, put it in a fridge, and let it settle. Usually I get some usable wine that way.
 

vacuumpumpman

Vendor
Sponsor
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
4,051
Reaction score
1,035
What do you mean by an all in one pump?
Does it include filters of some sort?
Do you have a model in mind?



If you have any questions or concerns you can always PM me directly and I will answer all your questions with a phone call typically. Please check our Videos on our website and that should help in alot of those unanswered questions -

Thanks again
Steve
 

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
All-In-One wine pump is a specific product, a vacuum pump that degasses while racking. It's a bit on the pricey side (IMO) but it will enable me to rack from a barrel on the ground.
I suspect the import duty to the azores from the states will double the cost of the product. I was thinking of building something similar to that.

I notice on the all-in-one website, 1um and 5um filters are suggested as an extra. Does anyone have an opinion on using multiple filters like a primary and secondary filter.

Does anyone have an opinion ref Bentonite to clarify wine???
 

Scooter68

Fruit "Wine" Maker
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
3,323
Reaction score
1,801
Location
Northwest Arkansas
I've used bentonite and while it's not miracle cure, it works well on most wines I make (Fruit - Non-grape) It is a pain to prepare but if you don't rush it it will a lot easier. Mix VERY slowly into hot water and once mixed, let it set overnight and shake the container well before adding to your wine. Works in about 3-5 days normally. Will NOT remove a pectic haze.
 

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
620
Reaction score
480
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
I filtered many moons ago, but haven't done it in decades. I like Bentonite, although as @Scooter68 said, ya gotta mix it slowly. I haven't let it set overnight, but will try that next time.

The Australian Wine Research Institute has detailed information on fining agents.

Kits typically use kieselsol & chitosan, and I've used that on mead as well.
 

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
I filtered many moons ago, but haven't done it in decades. I like Bentonite, although as @Scooter68 said, ya gotta mix it slowly. I haven't let it set overnight, but will try that next time.

The Australian Wine Research Institute has detailed information on fining agents.

Kits typically use kieselsol & chitosan, and I've used that on mead as well.
That is an excellent link ! Dont use bentonite on red wines as they reduce colour noted!
What is the best time to use bentonite ? before the first or last rackings?
 
Last edited:

winemaker81

wine dabbler
WMT Supporter
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
620
Reaction score
480
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
Dont use bentonite on red wines as they reduce colour noted!
Understanding what fining agents do requires some effort. I've read through a number of technical documents this evening, enough to give me a headache. Chem 101 was a LONG time ago, so I had to lookup a lot of things.

Bentonite apparently has the least negative effect on sensory constituents, e.g., taste and smell. Conversely, it does reduce color by 15% -- I found several references that stated that number. It has more effect on newer wines, so my process of hitting a wine with bentonite right after fermentation completes may clear the wine quickly, but has more effect upon color than waiting until bottling time. I'm currently reading in-depth about fining agents and may change my approach.

One note on all fining agents -- use less than the maximum dosage. For bentonite, I typically do 50% to 75% of the recommended dosage.

One thought is to experiment with different carboys -- dose one at 50% after pressing (at SG ~1.010) and compare that against other carboys dosed at 50% and 75% after fermentation completes. I'll be able to compare color directly.
 

Giacomo

Junior
Joined
Sep 19, 2020
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Understanding what fining agents do requires some effort. I've read through a number of technical documents this evening, enough to give me a headache. Chem 101 was a LONG time ago, so I had to lookup a lot of things.

Bentonite apparently has the least negative effect on sensory constituents, e.g., taste and smell. Conversely, it does reduce color by 15% -- I found several references that stated that number. It has more effect on newer wines, so my process of hitting a wine with bentonite right after fermentation completes may clear the wine quickly, but has more effect upon color than waiting until bottling time. I'm currently reading in-depth about fining agents and may change my approach.

One note on all fining agents -- use less than the maximum dosage. For bentonite, I typically do 50% to 75% of the recommended dosage.

One thought is to experiment with different carboys -- dose one at 50% after pressing (at SG ~1.010) and compare that against other carboys dosed at 50% and 75% after fermentation completes. I'll be able to compare color directly.
I've used bentonite and while it's not miracle cure, it works well on most wines I make (Fruit - Non-grape) It is a pain to prepare but if you don't rush it it will a lot easier. Mix VERY slowly into hot water and once mixed, let it set overnight and shake the container well before adding to your wine. Works in about 3-5 days normally. Will NOT remove a pectic haze.
Have you tried clarifying with egg whites?
 

Handy Andy

Supporting Members
WMT Supporter
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
73
Reaction score
6
Location
Sao Jorge
Have you tried clarifying with egg whites?
I have tried nothing yet, but have purchased a packet of Bentonite. I have about 100 litres of red wine, 15 litres of white, and 10 litres of figs on the go.
 

Latest posts

Top