Questions for my new wine project

[HomeCraftingHobbyGuy]

Hello everyone, i am new to this forum and community, and want to say hello and express my joy for finding this community to share my journey into one of my hobbys, to make wine. I hope i can learn more from everyone here make new friends and helps others in the future.

I am pretty new to wine making but am not so new as to not know some of the basics. I have made several batches of wine using fruits from the supermarket and enjoyed the process and learning something new.

I am now about to start a new project and have some questions i hope to have answered to have my wines come out better then the last.

We have a little shop at the natural foods warehouse where i work at where we sell products for cheaper then store to employees due to boxes being broke or whole packages damaged.
I found some real nice juices that i was excited to try for the price comparing to when i juiced my own fruits and thought it to be a bargain.

I snagged as many bottles as i could as it might be a very long time before they are in stock again.

I picked up some organic tart cherry juice (fresh pressed), And some prune juice (fresh pressed).

Both these juices are pasteurized and wanted first off to know if these would still benefit or need some sodium metabisulfite before starting the fermentation process.
Would adding sugar or honey contaminate the juices?

Both these juices are in there raw form, they are fresh pressed and do not contain extra water, what is your opinion on using pure juice without added water to pure juice with added water, as i allways would use.
Im guessing less added water would have a bolder flavor witch i really wana do this time, but am wondering if there would be any difference in fermentation speed or stalled fermentation?

I would like to keep this wine\meade as pure as possible and am thinking of buying some organic honey or organic cane sugar or even organic agave and wanted to know what you guys think would be the best option, I dont mind the honey making the wine thicker, i just never used it before and am wondering if the thickness of the honey would give me a different sugar\alcohol gravity reading using the hydromoter compared to using sugar?

And if so how would i adjust or compensate for the difference?

I usually just keep my wines in a carboy and pour whenever we want any.
But for this project i want it to be more professional so i am buying bottles and corks and making my own labels so that i can store it long term and give some as gifts.

I might have a few more questions but i dont want to make this post into a large read, but here are some pictures of my juices and a picture of a strawberry wine i made a few years back.

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to winemakingtalk, HCHG!

Both these juices are pasteurized and wanted first off to know if these would still benefit or need some sodium metabisulfite before starting the fermentation process.
Would adding sugar or honey contaminate the juices?

Most of us prefer potassium metabisulfite over sodium. The purpose of adding k-meta is to kill or stun wild yeasts or other spoilage organisms so that the desired wine yeast can get a good start and overwhelm those others. If your juice is pasteurized, then I see no need to add k-meta. I do not think adding sugar or honey will introduce anyything to worry about.

Both these juices are in there raw form, they are fresh pressed and do not contain extra water, what is your opinion on using pure juice without added water to pure juice with added water, as i allways would use.
Im guessing less added water would have a bolder flavor witch i really wana do this time, but am wondering if there would be any difference in fermentation speed or stalled fermentation?

For a given starting specific gravity, I do not believe that the fermentation speed or progress will be affected by the dilution of your juice.

wondering if the thickness of the honey would give me a different sugar\alcohol gravity reading using the hydromoter compared to using sugar?

Are you talking about thickness (i.e., viscosity) or density? You seem to be mixing those concepts up. I am not sure where you are getting the idea that honey will make your wine thicker than sugar will. Honey is mostly fructose and glucose; table sugar is sucrose, but it splits apart to make fructose and glucose. Your hydrometer reading will be equivalently affected by both sugar and honey (for a given amount of fermentable sugar). In other words, just trust your hydrometer!

 

[Rodnboro]

The more wine you make, the more you want to make. The company might see a large increase of damaged product. Ha

 

[HomeCraftingHobbyGuy]

Thank you for the answers Sour_Grapes, and thats funny Rodnboro, i do get tempted but i know better and will let nature take its course, i try keep a good karma.

I have some other questions. I want to know the best mehthod for long term storage of wine bottles.
I read natural corks are only good for up to 3 years and am wondering if the synthetic can last a lot longer and if adding a shrink cap or melted wax increase the life i can store it for?

Also i am thinking of buying Bold Red Wine / High Alcohol Yeast - Wyeast 4946 witch says can tolerate up to 18% alcohol.
Is this accurate and is there other ways to increase it even more, maybe a stronger yeast i am unaware of or other method?
I would like to make the cherry wine really strong as it would remind the family of a popular cherry alcohol from poland.

I am thinking of using honey for my cherry wine\meade and a type of cane sugar for my prune juice wine. And later after fermentation maybe try mixing the two to come up with a good combination flavor that brings out the flavors of each other.

How important is acidity during fermentation?
I read it can help bring out flavors and can be added before bottling, but how can i predict what my wine will become after its done. Should i test acidity before fermentation and possibly ruine the flavors or can i skip that part till the end?

Just to understand more clearly since i will be making the recipe this time rather then following from one. When i check the sg with hydromoter, should i check it once before i add the sugar or honey and then again after adding it too see how much it goes up and and then one last time before it goes down at the end of fermentation?
If i use the high alcohol yeast i would like to make sure i am at the 18% mark and take full advantage of it and not be below.

 

[sour_grapes]

I have some other questions. I want to know the best mehthod for long term storage of wine bottles.
I read natural corks are only good for up to 3 years and am wondering if the synthetic can last a lot longer and if adding a shrink cap or melted wax increase the life i can store it for?

I have read that a decent bi-disc agglomerated cork will last for many years, perhaps up to 10. Synthetic corks are, indeed, said to last longer -- essentially indefinitely. Melted wax on natural cork is a nice touch.

Also i am thinking of buying Bold Red Wine / High Alcohol Yeast - Wyeast 4946 witch says can tolerate up to 18% alcohol.
Is this accurate and is there other ways to increase it even more, maybe a stronger yeast i am unaware of or other method?
I would like to make the cherry wine really strong as it would remind the family of a popular cherry alcohol from poland.

Lavin has a yeast called EC-1118 that can go to 18%. Also, Red Star has a yeast called Premier Curvee (also known as Prise de Mousse) that can handle 18%.

Just to understand more clearly since i will be making the recipe this time rather then following from one. When i check the sg with hydromoter, should i check it once before i add the sugar or honey and then again after adding it too see how much it goes up and and then one last time before it goes down at the end of fermentation?
If i use the high alcohol yeast i would like to make sure i am at the 18% mark and take full advantage of it and not be below.

Yes, you should check before and adding the sugar or honey. But you may wish to check on it several more times as the fermentation progresses, just to monitor the process. If I have a nice fermentation going, I rarely check anymore until the fermentation slows down considerably. At that point, I am looking for it to be in the 1.000 to 1.010 range, and then transfer it to "secondary."

 

[DoctorCAD]

There are tens of thousands of bottles of wine with natural corks that are perfectly fine after 10 or more years. No worries there.

I do not understand the fascination with higher alcohol in wines. Most wine over 14% are so hot that they take many years to mellow into a good tasting wine, yet people are always wanting the mythical 18% yeast...all you get is alcohol and no more flavor.

 

[HomeCraftingHobbyGuy]

Thanks guys, i ended up purchasing some red and blue wine bottles and will use some burgundy shrink caps on the red and gold wax on the blue with synthetic corks just to have a stronger cork and make things more easy down the road. Also bought some label papers to make them look more professional.

I want to make sure i would be doing this correctly, i purchased my liquid yeast that can ferment to 18% but want to troubleshoot a possible scenario. Just so i know i am doing things right or can do something to improve my accuracy.
If i test my juice and get a reading of 1.040 then i would add my sugar or honey until i get a gravity reading of 1.130 witch would be the tolerance at 18% alc of the type of yeast i would be using. Would i or should i add a few ounces to a full lb less if each quart of juice i use has 4 ounces of natural sugar?

If i use 4 quarts of juice to make a gallon of wine (possibly less once the sugar is added) then i would have a lb of natural sugar witch could give me a bit of a inaccurate reading if i do not compensate for it.

Hope you guys understand what i am trying to ask.

Also i was able to snag only one jar of organic raw honey from the marketplace and probably wont see it in stock for a long time, or within the timeframe in witch i will be making my wine.
Just want to ask your opinions on what you would do if you had my choices.

Do i add one lb of organic raw honey to my wine along with a type of organic cane sugar or should i spend a lot more money to buy more organic raw honey from a retail store?

Witch wine\mead would you think the honey would go well with more, the prune or the tart cherry?

Thanks You

 

[sour_grapes]

I want to make sure i would be doing this correctly, i purchased my liquid yeast that can ferment to 18% but want to troubleshoot a possible scenario. Just so i know i am doing things right or can do something to improve my accuracy.
If i test my juice and get a reading of 1.040 then i would add my sugar or honey until i get a gravity reading of 1.130 witch would be the tolerance at 18% alc of the type of yeast i would be using. Would i or should i add a few ounces to a full lb less if each quart of juice i use has 4 ounces of natural sugar?

If i use 4 quarts of juice to make a gallon of wine (possibly less once the sugar is added) then i would have a lb of natural sugar witch could give me a bit of a inaccurate reading if i do not compensate for it.

A few things to comment on. First, I question shooting for 18%. Yes, it is the nominal tolerance of the yeast, but it is a very large ABV. Are you sure you even want that? High ABV wines take a long time to become drinkable. Trying to get every last percentage point stresses the yeast, perhaps causing them to produce off-flavors. And the danger of a stuck fermentation, where you wind up with a sweet, say, 15% ABV wine is very real. I certainly don't recommend you swing for this particular fence.

Second, your question about the sugar and ABV is confusing to me. Your first description sounds perfect: Test the SG of the juice, then add as much sugar as you need to get the SG up to your desired starting point. (You can use Fermcalc to help estimate how much additional sugar you need.)
You lost me on your followup comments about so many oz. of natural sugars per quart, etc. What were you trying to say?

 

[HomeCraftingHobbyGuy]

A few things to comment on. First, I question shooting for 18%. Yes, it is the nominal tolerance of the yeast, but it is a very large ABV. Are you sure you even want that? High ABV wines take a long time to become drinkable. Trying to get every last percentage point stresses the yeast, perhaps causing them to produce off-flavors. And the danger of a stuck fermentation, where you wind up with a sweet, say, 15% ABV wine is very real. I certainly don't recommend you swing for this particular fence.

Second, your question about the sugar and ABV is confusing to me. Your first description sounds perfect: Test the SG of the juice, then add as much sugar as you need to get the SG up to your desired starting point. (You can use Fermcalc to help estimate how much additional sugar you need.)
You lost me on your followup comments about so many oz. of natural sugars per quart, etc. What were you trying to say?

You would be correct, i do not want it to be overly sweet after its all done and would like to adjust any needed sweetness right before bottling, What would you recommend i do if aiming for a specific gravity of 18%.
Should i add enough sugar to make it only 16-17%?
How about adding yeast energizer to get it to 18?
Obviously 18% is possible so what can i do to achieve it, any extra steps i should take, with temperatures or adding more yeast or energizer at different times of the fermentation?

Sorry you did not understand Sour. What i was trying to ask was that different juice's would have a different specific gravity and i was unsure if the gravity is only affected by the amount of sugars in the juice's or other things also.
I wanted to compensate the natural sugars in the juice by adding slighty less sugar to reach the specific gravity that would put me at the 18% mark on the hydromoter.
Correct me if im wrong, i do not know if specific gravity is mostly affected by sugars only. And that regardless of anything else in the juices that might spike the specific gravity other then sugars would be so minimal that i would not have to worry about any sort of compensation.

Also would be nice to get your opinion on making the wine\mead by adding honey to the tart cherry juice or to the prune.
Im guessing some of you might have more experience in tasting and making different wines\meads and can give a opinion on which wine\mead the flavors of the honey might lend to and compliment more.

I also asked a question about ph and me making my wine during fermentation and the worry's of how the flavors might change over time during fermentation and after bottling.

If you can link me to a article or explain to me how concerned i should be about my new wine project, i would greatly appreciate it.

I cant find no fermaidK on ebay and the place i order my supplies were out of it. Any suggestion where i can pick some up with low or free shipping?

 

[sour_grapes]

You would be correct, i do not want it to be overly sweet after its all done and would like to adjust any needed sweetness right before bottling, What would you recommend i do if aiming for a specific gravity of 18%.
Should i add enough sugar to make it only 16-17%?
How about adding yeast energizer to get it to 18?
Obviously 18% is possible so what can i do to achieve it, any extra steps i should take, with temperatures or adding more yeast or energizer at different times of the fermentation?

Sorry you did not understand Sour. What i was trying to ask was that different juice's would have a different specific gravity and i was unsure if the gravity is only affected by the amount of sugars in the juice's or other things also.
I wanted to compensate the natural sugars in the juice by adding slighty less sugar to reach the specific gravity that would put me at the 18% mark on the hydromoter.
Correct me if im wrong, i do not know if specific gravity is mostly affected by sugars only. And that regardless of anything else in the juices that might spike the specific gravity other then sugars would be so minimal that i would not have to worry about any sort of compensation.

Ah, I see. While you are correct that the SG is affected by all the dissolved solids, in practice, it is dominated by the sugars. The other dissolved solids increase the SG a negligible amount. So you may safely use SG as a proxy for sugar content. So, if you are aiming for 18%, you should add enough sugar to bring your SG to 1.130, as you suggested earlier.

You seem to have a good handle on what else you can do to maximize your chances of success: add yeast nutrients, keep the fermentation in a good temperature range for your yeast.

I was a little unsure what kind of resource you were looking for a link to. Here is a link to a good guide to winemaking: http://www.morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wredw.pdf

I cannot assist you with your other questions, unfortunately.