Pros and Cons of sweetening before bulk aging?
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dangerdave
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I am in the "sweeten then bulk age" camp. IMO, this gives the wine time to meld it's flavors and attain a desirable balance. The sugars are great for enhancing and bringing forth the character of the fruits used---be they grape or otherwise.
saramc
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I bulk age before opting to stabilize with KMS/sorbate and backsweetening simply because I have had many wines improve to the point that I opted not to backsweeten; or not backsweeten as much as I would have if I had acted sooner instead of bulk aging. Plus, anything I backsweeten sits for another 1-2 months before I bottle anyway. But as I bulk age I definitely dose with KMS on a quarterly basis.
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I bulk age dry. This leaves options open if I decide to blend before bottling. I sugar, meta and sorbate then bottle anywhere from 3 days to whenever I get to it. This is also what wineries do.
dangerdave
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Ah, the three above are correct. I am yet to backsweeten a wine I had not planned to at the beginning. In my personal wine making method, I plot out a recipe and follow it to the (hopefully not bitter!) end. I very rarely tweak a recipe in mid process. So, having said that, if I plan to back sweeten, I do it before aging.
However, I clearly see the method to their madness above. They make a good point for letting the wine age, then back sweeten if necessary.
However, I clearly see the method to their madness above. They make a good point for letting the wine age, then back sweeten if necessary.
Arne
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I tend to bulk age dry. I usually sweeten my wines, but some of them lately have not needed sweetening after bulk aging. Arne.
Age dry and sweeten later. I want the flavors to develop as much as possible before I do any sweetening trials. If the wine is still young and "raw" and I sweeten it to taste then, it may be completely different and out of balance by the time it would be bottled.
Arne
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Greg, you did a lot better job of explaining why I age dry than I did. Thank you. Arne.
I agree with the bulk aging then sweetening and the reasons everyone stated. But another reason is that sugar should not be added to a wine until it is completely done clearing out the wine yeast. You want the wine to to drop out as many yeast cells as possible. Then you rack off the yeast cells, and this will prevent refermentation when sugar and sorbate is added. It's also very important to be sure that the sugar and sorbate is evenly distributed thruout the wine.
E C Kraus has a very nice discussion of this subject on their site under blog/ wine-yeast.
E C Kraus has a very nice discussion of this subject on their site under blog/ wine-yeast.
+++ YES
I would never add anything before at least 6 months. I always cringe when I read instructions suggesting to transfer from primary, add stabilizers and sweeteners. WAY TOO EARLY.
kryptonitewine
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So should we not stabilize either? I thought it needed to be stabilized before aging.
What do you mean by stabilize? After fermentation you want to keep the SO2 at a protective level. Since there is no sugar, there is no need to stabilize for fermentation - so no sorbate needed. You only need to add sorbate if and when you add sugar to sweeten.
kryptonitewine
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As I'm new it was just me not understanding.
Kryptonite---The way this works for NON-kit wines is that once you rack to the secondary, the next procedure is to wait until you have lots of sediment in the bottom---these are the gross lees which are the products from fermentation. Rack those off. No need to rack again unless you have quite a bit of lees again. Let the wine sit and age undisturbed---we like to let them age at least 9 months unless we
are talking about big reds like Cab, Pinot noir,etc.
In this time frame, all the CO2 will be gone and the wine aged up, and also cleared. The rule here is that you cannot stabilize an uncleared wine. You have to have most of the yeast cells cleared from the wine and no remaining CO2 in order to bottle---whether you add sugar and sorbate or not.
are talking about big reds like Cab, Pinot noir,etc.
In this time frame, all the CO2 will be gone and the wine aged up, and also cleared. The rule here is that you cannot stabilize an uncleared wine. You have to have most of the yeast cells cleared from the wine and no remaining CO2 in order to bottle---whether you add sugar and sorbate or not.
Stressbaby
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What happens if you stabilize a wine which is degassed but not cleared? I'm not talking about sweetening, just adding the sorbate. I've done this recently to a couple of wines...hope I didn't screw them up...
It seems logical to me that if anything, stabilizing would HELP with clearing.
It seems logical to me that if anything, stabilizing would HELP with clearing.
Sorbate doesn't do anything for clearing and it doesn't kill yeast. If there is no sugar to ferment, there is no need to add any sorbate. Adding it won't necessarily hurt but it is not doing anything.
The danger comes in when you sweeten and sorbate if it is still cloudy. There is still a large population of yeast present. Again, sorbate won't kill yeast, it will only prevent reproduction. So if there is yeast present it will start fermenting the sugar. That's why you want it as clear of yeast as possible before sweetening.
Sorbate does nothing for clearing.
The danger comes in when you sweeten and sorbate if it is still cloudy. There is still a large population of yeast present. Again, sorbate won't kill yeast, it will only prevent reproduction. So if there is yeast present it will start fermenting the sugar. That's why you want it as clear of yeast as possible before sweetening.
Sorbate does nothing for clearing.
dangerdave
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Ok, OK! I get it! LOL!
I guess I just haven't made a dry wine I needed to sweeten or a back sweetened wine I liked dry.
You all make very good points. Thank you.
Polarhug
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On the point of balancing with sugar at the end, wouldn't the wine *again* change characteristics after sweetening then bottling? It has to interact with the other chemical compounds in the wine one would think?
I'm just trying to figure out how much my sweetened wine will differ say 10 months - 2 years down the road from the day I bottled. They seem to be changing a lot.
I guess in a perfectly patient world, one would bulk age dry. Then sweeten, then bulk age again and then any miniscule tweaks before bottling?
I'm just trying to figure out how much my sweetened wine will differ say 10 months - 2 years down the road from the day I bottled. They seem to be changing a lot.
I guess in a perfectly patient world, one would bulk age dry. Then sweeten, then bulk age again and then any miniscule tweaks before bottling?
