proposed all fruit Blackberry mead

[BernardSmith]

I don’t remember the details, but when I made cizer a few years ago I remember the recipe saying to mix the honey with equal parts apple juice to thin it down before adding to the fermentation vessel.

THAT sounds like a recipe for a disaster. Three pounds of honey = 1 qt. So, two quarts of honey = 6 lbs. To make one gallon of cyser, you would then need to add 2 quarts of apple juice. So, what we have is 2 qts of liquid at 1.050 (plus or minus) and 2 qts of honey with an SG of 1. 210 but wait. That SG is true only when the honey is dissolved in water to make 4 qts of must but we are dissolving this in in fact 2/3 of that volume (given the volume of the honey, itself) - so more like 1.315 which is 90 proof (41% ABV)... AND I have ignored the 50 ppoints of sugar in the juice... No yeast on this planet can transport that much sugar in concentration through their cell walls .
To make a reasonably good cyser you might want to use about 1- 1.5 lbs of honey to a gallon of apple juice. Then you are talking about a starting gravity of close to 1.090 - 1.100 which is what you might AIM for. Honey will provide a garvity of about 1.035 per pound and the juice about 1.045 -1.055 depending on the types of apples pressed

 

[Earldw]

THAT sounds like a recipe for a disaster. Three pounds of honey = 1 qt. So, two quarts of honey = 6 lbs. To make one gallon of cyser, you would then need to add 2 quarts of apple juice. So, what we have is 2 qts of liquid at 1.050 (plus or minus) and 2 qts of honey with an SG of 1. 210 but wait. That SG is true only when the honey is dissolved in water to make 4 qts of must but we are dissolving this in in fact 2/3 of that volume (given the volume of the honey, itself) - so more like 1.315 which is 90 proof (41% ABV)... AND I have ignored the 50 ppoints of sugar in the juice... No yeast on this planet can transport that much sugar in concentration through their cell walls .
To make a reasonably good cyser you might want to use about 1- 1.5 lbs of honey to a gallon of apple juice. Then you are talking about a starting gravity of close to 1.090 - 1.100 which is what you might AIM for. Honey will provide a garvity of about 1.035 per pound and the juice about 1.045 -1.055 depending on the types of apples pressed

I think you read more into this than I intended BernardSmith. I was merely stating to thin the honey first with some of the apple juice before introducing it with the rest of the mix with the rest of the applejuice. Viscous liquids often dissolve better when thinned first.

 

[BernardSmith]

Apologies. I read what you wrote quite literally: you said to use the same volume of juice as honey. But if the recipe was calling out for more juice than the 2 quarts that wasn't very clear. But apologies if I misread your post. I am nothing if not a literalist AND a contrarian.

 

[winemaker81]

I think you read more into this than I intended BernardSmith. I was merely stating to thin the honey first with some of the apple juice before introducing it with the rest of the mix with the rest of the applejuice. Viscous liquids often dissolve better when thinned first.

Text is a difficult medium for communication. It's so easy to be unclear and to be open to misinterpretation. We tend to be patient with each other -- that lack is among the reasons why other forums of all stripes have flame wars.

Initial must volume is a commonly discussed topic, hence Bernard's concern. There is also initial volume vs wine volume, primary container size, secondary container size, head space, and .....

We never run it of stuff to discuss!