Are primary and secondary fermentation done in the same container or do you transfer it for secondary? I guess I am not completely understanding the difference.
Primary vs Secondary fermentation
- Thread starter Ldcecil
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
Primary is typically done in a loosely covered container. In many wines there are a lot of fruit solids and you need to stir and punch them down regularly. Early during the fermentation process yeast are reproducing and need oxygen.
As fermentation nears completion you typically remove the solids (gross lees) and transfer to a closed container with an air lock. This is what’s known as secondary fermentation. From this point on you want to limit oxygen exposure.
As fermentation nears completion you typically remove the solids (gross lees) and transfer to a closed container with an air lock. This is what’s known as secondary fermentation. From this point on you want to limit oxygen exposure.
Okay thanks for explaining - so I think I have been doing things right!
There are of course exceptions. Look up extended maceration or battonage, for every rule there is an exception.
What kind of wines are you interested in making?
So far moscato and Riesling and starting to get into fruit wines - mango strawberry and going to start a cranberry soon
A useful way to look at primary versus secondary is to ask what the cells are doing. The graphic copied shows an inflection when nitrogen is used up which correlates to when oxygen isn't needed. I am currently running fruit wines or whites aiming to rack at that inflection (gravity under 1.050 and above 1.010).
Another change is that gas has slowed down which results in most solids falling out. I try to rack again when that event happens. ,,, ie I look for a reason to rack which makes cleaner wine and avoid racking based on a calendar date.
Another change is that gas has slowed down which results in most solids falling out. I try to rack again when that event happens. ,,, ie I look for a reason to rack which makes cleaner wine and avoid racking based on a calendar date.
Strictly speaking it's the same fermentation just in a different container. Secondary fermentation, again strictly speaking, refers to MLF, a fermentation that happens "later" in some wines. Generally we're "loose" with the lingo but we know what we mean.
You'll find that basically wine making is easy but there are so many variables you can play with to make every ferment different.
You should like the cranberry you're planning. I made one last year that was delicious and I'll be starting another one soon, playing with the variables.
You'll find that basically wine making is easy but there are so many variables you can play with to make every ferment different.
You should like the cranberry you're planning. I made one last year that was delicious and I'll be starting another one soon, playing with the variables.
It's common to refer to the fermentation that continues after racking or pressing as "secondary", but that's not technically correct. There's only one yeast fermentation, which is referred to as primary fermentation. If the wine is racked into a secondary container prior to the end of fermentation, it's still the same fermentation, it's just continuing in a closed container.
I'm pointing this out as you'll see different terminology is other threads, and it's likely to be confusing.
Secondary fermentation is malolactic fermentation (MLF), which is where malolactic bacteria (MLB) eats malic acid and emits the milder lactic acid. This is commonly done with reds and some whites (notably Chardonnay), but is not done with kits (for numerous reasons) or most fruit wines.
To make things more complicated, the second dose of yeast & sugar added when making champagne using Méthode champenoise is also called second fermentation.
I'm pointing this out as you'll see different terminology is other threads, and it's likely to be confusing.
Secondary fermentation is malolactic fermentation (MLF), which is where malolactic bacteria (MLB) eats malic acid and emits the milder lactic acid. This is commonly done with reds and some whites (notably Chardonnay), but is not done with kits (for numerous reasons) or most fruit wines.
To make things more complicated, the second dose of yeast & sugar added when making champagne using Méthode champenoise is also called second fermentation.
So, I am new to this, and we have been leaving the wine in the primary till it hits 1.000 then move it to a second container off the ‘lees’ or sediment. Should I be moving it sooner?
Ohio Bob
Senior Member
The important issue is to allow oxygen access down to approximately SG of 1.020, then put under an airlock.
Me personally, I don’t trust my buckets and lids, so I rack off the lees at that point to a glass carboy.
Me personally, I don’t trust my buckets and lids, so I rack off the lees at that point to a glass carboy.
I try to catch it between 1.010 and 1.020 but I have had runaway fermentations that blew past 1.000 before I caught them. I don’t think you have to worry if you miss it by a day or Two. There’s still a lot of CO2 off gassing at this point that protects the wine.
Sailor323
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2019
- Messages
- 372
- Reaction score
- 463
Technically, secondary fermentation takes place AFTER primary fermentation is complete. Primary fermentation is complete when SG drops below 1.000, say 0.995 or so. I generally keep the must in a primary fermentation vessel until primary fermentation is complete. Sometimes I seal the primary vessel and add an airlock when fermentation is about 1/3 to 1/2 complete (say when sg is around 1.050). I rack off the lees when primary fermentation is complete, that is, no further fermentation is going to happen. I usually add meta at this time. Actually, I never look for secondary fermentation; from this point on the wine is complete except for clearing and aging.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2018
- Messages
- 1,397
- Reaction score
- 804
I’ve let primary go down to .996 and had no issues.
It depends. What are you making?
If you are making a wine from juice (this includes kits) or tea (some herb wines are made from a "tea"), some folks rack the wine into a secondary around 1.020 to preserve aromatics. I recall someone saying they rack at 1.050, and others rack below 1.010 or when fermentation is complete. It all works.
If you're making a red wine, a darker fruit with pulp, or a kit with skin packs, fermenting below 1.000 gets more extraction from the solids. Some folks are practicing Extended Maceration, fermenting in an open bucket until the SG is between 1.020 and 1.010, then sealing the bucket (lid + airlock) for 2 to 8 weeks, then racking.
The process for the Finer Wine Kits (FWK) products is to ferment in an open bucket until the SG is between 1.020 and 1.010, then seal the bucket. Unseal on Day 14 and rack -- this is for all kits -- reds with skinpacks, reds w/o skinpacks, whites, and fruits. I'm leaning towards this process for all wines, as fermentation should be complete and the first racking is off the gross lees (fruit solids that drop within 24-72 hours after fermentation completes). This process also helps with time management, e.g., if I start the wine today I know I'll press in 2 weeks.
