WineXpert Primary to secondary fermentation

[Casper]

I read this statement from Masta in other post, that made me think.<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />


http://www.finevinewines.com/Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1 048&amp;PN=1





“Primary Fermentation is actually Aerobic fermentation: Which means fermentation in the presence of oxygen. This stage is important to build a large colony of viable yeast cells to guarantee all the sugar in your must can be consumed and converted into CO2 and ethanol.


Secondary Fermentation is actually Anaerobic fermentation: Which is fermentation without the presence of oxygen. This stage is important so the yeast can concentrate on converting the sugar to CO2 and ethanol and not multiplying.


Only microbes, such as yeasts and bacteria, can live for long periods without oxygen. The main reasons to put the wine under airlock in a secondary fermenter is to prevent any chance of oxidation when the fermentation slows and the amount of CO2that isproduced diminishes. It also allows the yeast to concentrate on feeding on the remaining sugar so you get a completefermentation or conversion to CO2 and ethanol.”





I started a Viognier Kit and blackberry wine.


- For the Viognier Kit I racked the wine when SG was at 1.016 the day before it was 1.026 with a temp of 18 Celsius so the fermentation was going fast, if I understand there was a lot of a yeast cell. And that the instruction asks for to get to 28 Days.


- For the blackberry wine it said to rack the wine to the carboy after 5 to 7 days of primary fermentation. The SG was at 1.070 not 1.020, but the carboy was filled at about 5 “from airlock. So I know there was a bit of air but not like in the primary fermanter. If I understand the colonisation of yeast was slowdown that means slower fermentation. After 30 days now the SG is 1.026 at temp of 18 Celsius same temperatures than the viognier kit. I tasted it and it is very good.


I learned that a slow fermentation would keep more aromas from the fruit.


I always try to improve my wine kit lower temperature, more time in carboy …


But what about racking the wine kit before 1.020 to slowdown yeast cells production. Is less yeast cells would slowdown the fermentation like the blackberry and make it better?

 

[jojo]

Great post Casper. Thanks!


My next kit I am doing in the basement with a brewers belt on a plastic primary. I should fire it up this coming weekend. I plan to NOT use the airlock during primary fermentation as I have done in the past.

 

[Paddy]

Casper,


I read that too be Masta. I was thinking how much O2 can present in the primary fremitation with an airloc and all than CO2 exiting? Seams it would fill that space in 10 sec!


From a diff point of view, the juice has lots of O2 trapped?


I'm at day 5 on primary frem. I should be starting to check the S.G. to reach 1.01. OK, I'm an engi-nerd measuring is ..all I do. I think the ferm bucket should have a 'bung' hole so I don't have to pull the lid off each time I need to check the S.G. If I did have a bung sized hole, I could drop the wine theif in and get my sample. We all know those lids don't just come off!


What do you think??





Patick

 

[masta]

The must does and should have a lot of oxygen dissolved in it from the vigorous stirring you gave it when making up the batch. Many winemakers do there primary fermentation without a cover and airlock which is fine since the yeast needs the extra O2 when building a strong colony and the vigorous fermentation is releasing enough CO2 to protect the must/wine. I personally make up my wine kits with plenty of stirring with a fizz-x and then pitch the yeast and cover and not touch it for at least 6-7 days.


Fruit wines I do the same make up but I give them a stir every day for the first 4-5 days ( to help get all extraction from the fruit) and recover with airlock.


Meads get same make up but stirred the first 4-5 days and dosed with a bit of yeast nutrient for day 1-2.


Wine kits should be made following the directions since they have been designed to be foolproof when made that way.


Transferring off the gross lees and yeast from the primary too early could cause an issue with an incomplete fermentation.


Bottom Line:Introduce plenty of oxygen into your must for the yeast to multiplyand when fermentation slows get the wine under an airlock to prevent oxidation and allow the yeast to concentrate on converting sugar to ethanol and CO2.

 

[Casper]

Casper,


I read that too be Masta. I was thinking how much O2 can present in the primary fremitation with an airloc and all than CO2 exiting? Seams it would fill that space in 10 sec!


From a diff point of view, the juice has lots of O2 trapped?


I'm at day 5 on primary frem. I should be starting to check the S.G. to reach 1.01. OK, I'm an engi-nerd measuring is ..all I do. I think the ferm bucket should have a 'bung' hole so I don't have to pull the lid off each time I need to check the S.G. If I did have a bung sized hole, I could drop the wine theif in and get my sample. We all know those lids don't just come off!


What do you think??





Patick

What type of primary bucket you have. I have 2 types here a picture

The first one thecover is very easy to remove and the second come with an airlock.

 

[Casper]

Thanks Masta





I will follow the instruction.

, I thought I found another way to improve wine kit.

 

[Paddy]

Casper,


I have a 6.5 gal bucket/lid. It is very close to a 'drywall compound' bucket. It came with a gromet for the air loc.


The lid has a real positive snap fit. Your containers look easy to use.


patrick

 

[MedPretzel]

It came with a gromet for the air loc.

So that's waht those thingies are called! Thanks!

 

[MedPretzel]

Fruit wines I do the same make up but I give them a stir every day for the first 4-5 days ( to help get all extraction from the fruit) and recover with airlock.

Yes, I agree. Stirring in a fruit wine might be needed not because of the O2, but rather for the "fruitiness."


I do not recover with an airlock, however. I gently put the lid over the must and let the must do it's thing for at least a week.

 

[Casper]

I do not recover with an airlock, however. I gently put the lid over the must and let the must do it's thing for at least a week.

Paddy


MedPretzel is right just put the cover on, don't snap it.

 

[Paddy]

Casper,


My kit said to use the airloc. If I just place the lid on 'nasty' things might get in! And most critical...I couldn't see the airloc bubble!





patrick

 

[Steve]

The kit said to use it on the primary or the secondary?

 

[Paddy]

Steve,


The reference to using the airloc is from this site. It's on the Tutorial area. Though not required, it says to use it if insects could enter. I keep the fermentor in a food pantry so it could be exposed to little beasts that hang with potatoes.





Patrick

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Patrick - Find what seems to work best for you in this regard. Many of us
just lay the lid on loose during the first 3-4 days, feeling that available
oxygen is still beneficial to the growing yeast colony. Then we snap the
lid on for the rest of primary fermentation with airlock. When making
scratch fruit wines, it is necessary to stir the must and press the cap
(solid fruit floating on top) down several times a day, so a loose lid is a lot
handier. You are doing well to be cognizant of flying pests, if they are
present

Bill

 

[PolishWineP]

We cover the primarywith a dish towel, use the string/rubber band combo and then set the lid on top. The cloth does a couple of things. It keeps the flying insects out and allows for air circulation. The lid set on top keeps the cats from jumping onto of the towel and falling into the must.The string/rubber band combo keeps the cats from pulling the towel off of the primary fermenter along with the lid, allowing a party to happen while we are innocently off at work earning money to buy cat food.

 

[NorthernWinos]

I never put the lid on top of the aforementioned cloth/rubber band application....then while the last batch was fermenting a pound of butter slipped out of the freezer and bounced off the rim of the bucket.....onto...the floor...thank Goodness....so now the lid rests on top of the bucket...
I do the primary fermentation near the fridge in the kitchen, a nice stream of warm air radiates out from underneath the fridge keeping the must the proper temp.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

a nice stream of warm air radiates out from underneath the fridge
keeping the must the proper temp

What a great idea! My kitchen doesn't have the necessary space at the refrig,
but we have a gas fired Vermont Castings stove with adjacent space for
carboys and jugs - trouble is, the stove is not on regularly like the refrig is.

 

[garyd]

I never put the lid on top of the aforementioned cloth/rubber band application....then while the last batch was fermenting a pound of butter slipped out of the freezer and bounced off the rim of the bucket.....onto...the floor...thank Goodness....so now the lid rests on top of the bucket...
I do the primary fermentation near the fridge in the kitchen, a nice stream of warm air radiates out from underneath the fridge keeping the must the proper temp.

If that was a Chardonnay, mmmmmmmm Buttery goodness!!!

 

[DrtDoctor]

Alright, I have two batches going, both kits. I'm a total newbie and after reading everything probably didn't stir my primary enough to get lots of oxygen in and have a sealed bucket with an air lock. It took a full seven days to get my first batch to 1.01 but things look good. Second batch in primary now.

My big question is on temperature. I have them in my basement and the temp is about 15 degrees C. Which is well below the 18 degrees minimum suggested. The actual temp of the must is probably higher. The 15 degrees is of a bucket of water sitting nearby.

Should I be worried?? Things seem to be progressing alright. I don't know, this is my first attempt.

What should I expect other than a slower process with this low temperature?

DrtDoctor

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Hi DrtDoctor - Temp might have been why the first kit took a full seven
days. Optimum fermenting temperature of the must for a red wine kit is
23C. Optimum (for extraction of flavor/aroma/etc.) for whites is more like
14-16C, but the duration will be longer than 5 days. I just finished
fermentation for a WE Pinot Grigio which took about 12 days at 16C or
60F. If your two kits are reds you definitely want to raise must temps to
around 23C for the duration of fermentation. During active fermentation,
the temp of the must will rise on its own, so measure it and not ambient
air temp. There is no damage done if fermentation happens at lower
temps, up to a point. Too cold, and yeast go dormant. Hope this helps.

Bill