Poison cactus pear wine

[Ken Paw Paw]

I’m new to this so I wanted to post what happened when I made wine out of cactus pear tunas. Typical Texas West Central prickly pear.
I used a large hole grinder to mash the fruit.
I then boiled and strained the juice out.
Beautiful red color smelling of honey.
Using septic techniques I started the wine in five gallon plastic carboys.
Five campdon crushed in each, pectin enzyme, yeast nutrient, as per instructions. Added the yeast and kept at 75* in primary until fermentation was mostly completed. Racked into glass carboys with air lock for a couple more weeks then decided to taste it....
Big Mistake- I drank about four ozs. It had a wonderful smell and taste.
That night I had fever, chills and sever muscle aches in my upper and lower back. This lasted two days.
I recently had a flue shot and blamed it on it.
Another Big Mistake- week or so later I tried another 4 ozs to see how my wine was doing.
Same thing happened.
For what ever reason this stuff is poison.
Has anyone had similar experiences with cactus wine? Using the same preparation I made watermelon wine and it’s great but needs to age.
Need a little help here please

 

[hounddawg]

hum, recon you're allergic to them, old timers made jams & jellies from them, the pads could be boiled for a nutritious juice, the leaf pars are a diuretic filled with anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatory, the fruit is red or purplish, did you burn off the spines with fire , the small ones the larger ones you scrapes off with a knife, now as to ferment or alcohol i have not a clue,,,
Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

oh. WELCOME TO WMT
Dawg

 

[franc1969]

Yeah, I wouldn't think poison, unless you put something odd in with the cactus fruits. If your family/friends like the wine and have no issues with it- there you go, and they might get it all. Allergies can show up oddly and unexpectedly. I am allergic to raw cauliflower, not any other cruciferous veg. And ok with cooked, but freaked out now.

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Thanks Dawg and Franc. Yes I used a pear burner to burn off the glochids. I thought I may get be the hero of the season with family by making some good wine for them.
The first five gallon batch I gave my brother and his son a glass before I figured it was the wine had made me sick. My brother went to emergency that night. He thought he had contacted Covid. Son had the same reaction I had. Im sure not the hero with those guys!
I poured out the ten gallons and started ten more thinking the grinder had crushed the seeds and somehow released a poison. I used a different fruit prep. I just crushed the fruit and strained the juice.
It’s in the second fermenters now but I’m afraid of it.
You can bet when I try this batch I will try only a half oz to see what effect it has on me.
Prickly pear grows around here in abundance. Iv’e used it for years for jelly and syrup without issue.
The wine had a great color, smell and taste.
I’ll post how this batch turns out.
Again thanks for your reply. Ken

 

[NoQuarter]

I grow and eat the red cactus pears yearly and usually eat the seeds too. As far as I know there is only 1 or two varieties of cactus in the world that are toxic, and they do not grow in the Americas.
I made wine with the prickly pears for the first time last year. Took several months to clear and went through a very mucilaginous stage. Very slimy. It dropped out over a couple months but always smelled and tasted okay. I have it aging so have only tried an ounce or two at a time....Perhaps a bad bug had gotten in your ferment? I just mashed the fruit with skins after burning off spines and fermented in straining bag. Skins...seeds.. even a few spines. Time to pick my prickly pears again right now, maybe I should drink a bottle before making more wine with it...

 

[Rice_Guy]

Prickly pear is a fairly high pH food, ie it has a risk of getting a number of food poisoning infections instead of a clean yeast culture.
The Primary Solution; acidify the must to be less than pH 3.5 with acid blend before you do any fermenting (I would target pH 3.2). This will also make the Campden (metabisulphite) more effective at preventing microbial growth. ,,, a pH meter is best for checking what the number is.
other, 75F is a high temp for a watermelon and most high aroma fruit wines. The risk of having an infection is lower if you can stay below 65F and above 50F. Temperature is not a game killer but it helps.
cleanliness helps, especially combined with a starter with lots of yeast and overpower any low level contaminants, however ,,,, without proper pH control the shelf life will be short like a beer

(did your instructions have you add acid? how much?) you are making me want to hunt out some prickly pear to see what the acidity numbers are to predict how to safely build this wine
edit ! ! Welcome to the wine making forum

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Thanks No Quarter for your response.
Like you I have eaten the tunas for years with no effect on my health.

being new to winemaking it is possible I guess for a bug to have slipped in.?

this second batch should be definitive for me on cactus pear wine. I was VERY careful with sanitizing.
One thing I left out of my process is that I canned the juice using a pressure canner 12 pounds for 20 minutes and when I had processed enough juice I then proceeded with the recipe. As you know picking, burning and juicing the tunas takes time although being the country bumpkin innovative sort I’ve come up with a way to shorten that process that doesn’t involve getting the glochids in me or having to burn the pear.
The wine produced really tasted and smelled wonderful if a little sweet I thought it was okay to taste.
Dawg could be right about my family being allergic to pear. What a shame, because metric tons of them grow within a square mile of my home here in WC Tx.
Thanks for your reply. Ken

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Prickly pear is a fairly high pH food, ie it has a risk of getting a number of food poisoning infections instead of a clean yeast culture.
The Primary Solution; acidify the must to be less than pH 3.5 with acid blend before you do any fermenting (I would target pH 3.2). This will also make the Campden (metabisulphite) more effective at preventing microbial growth. ,,, a pH meter is best for checking what the number is.
other, 75F is a high temp for a watermelon and most high aroma fruit wines. The risk of having an infection is lower if you can stay below 65F and above 50F. Temperature is not a game killer but it helps.
cleanliness helps, especially combined with a starter with lots of yeast and overpower any low level contaminants, however ,,,, without proper pH control the shelf life will be short like a beer

(did your instructions have you add acid? how much?) you are making me want to hunt out some prickly pear to see what the acidity numbers are to predict how to safely build this wine
edit ! ! Welcome to the wine making forum

Thanks Rice_Guy. You must be from deep SE Tx?
In answer to your question- no the recipe didn’t call for lowering the pH. As to sanitization I was reasonably careful.
Winter isn’t the time to pick pear here but I have a gallon of canned juice you can have if you send me your ground address and I can figure a way to ship it to you in these half gallon glass jars. A good recipe for prickly pear wine would be thanks enough.
Thanks for your reply

 

[Rice_Guy]

Canning a low pH food is usually done at 15psig not 12psig. In the micro lab we run 15 minutes plus come up and cooling time. (In the factory the process normally is a total 50 minute process.)
Growing clostridium botulinum is possible with retorted high pH foods I am not a FDA canned food expert so can’t guess what the percentage kill would be with clostridium spores. There is a risk of botulism toxin which is tasteless.

The easy fix is that clostridium will not grow below pH 4.0, therefore add the acid normally put into a primary when you are canning the juice.

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Botulism would sure fit the description. Thanks again

 

[NoQuarter]

According to my notes, my PH was 5.2 of my must before pitching yeast.... I brought it down to 3.4 with an acid blend. I think RiceGuy is correct if you did not adjust your PH correctly.

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Thanks for your reply

I’m sending Rice Guy a sample of the canned juice to see if it’s botulism.
Thanks for your interest.

 

[hounddawg]

Thanks No Quarter for your response.
Like you I have eaten the tunas for years with no effect on my health.

being new to winemaking it is possible I guess for a bug to have slipped in.?

this second batch should be definitive for me on cactus pear wine. I was VERY careful with sanitizing.
One thing I left out of my process is that I canned the juice using a pressure canner 12 pounds for 20 minutes and when I had processed enough juice I then proceeded with the recipe. As you know picking, burning and juicing the tunas takes time although being the country bumpkin innovative sort I’ve come up with a way to shorten that process that doesn’t involve getting the glochids in me or having to burn the pear.
The wine produced really tasted and smelled wonderful if a little sweet I thought it was okay to taste.
Dawg could be right about my family being allergic to pear. What a shame, because metric tons of them grow within a square mile of my home here in WC Tx.
Thanks for your reply. Ken

ah, you didn't mention that, with that info I'd bet @riceguy is right, i have a an American 30qt canner, love canning, but 1 misstep and your in trouble, both IMHO your pound should be 15 minutes and your time after the jigglier started you needed to go at least 30 minutes,
Dawg

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Live and learn. I’ve been canning for years also. I just didn’t think with juice for the wine I would have to cook as long. You guys are probably right. Thanks Dawg

 

[hounddawg]

hum, i just read up on them it calls for them to be boiled for 20 minutes, as well the pale or body should be skinned due to the skin tasting very bad, but the inner meat being sweet but kinda bland, and they can be safely canned in a water bath canner, no need for a presser canner, ,
Dawg

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Dawg thanks for your post and following this thread.
I canned the juice because I needed more time to pick and process more tunas to make the ten gallon batch I wanted to make. To harvest the juice I burned the stickers off, washed the fruit then crushed it. I boiled the crushed fruit with skin for twenty minutes or more to soften so I could strain it. As far as the skin tasting bad? The wine I made tasted and smelled great. Rich and sweet like a desert wine or port. I don’t think I would want it to taste differently. This second batch tastes the same way but I’m not going to try drinking it. I wish I knew what went wrong. Could be the skin of the tunas released a poison? I thought maybe the grinding crushed some seeds and released something bad? Why wine and not jelly or syrup? I’ve searched the internet over looking for the reason things went very wrong or if anyone else has encountered this problem.
You guys have probably come up with the answer. Either I’m allergic somehow to the wine and not to the jelly or syrup or Clostridium spoors were activated with the anaerobic of canning and deposited the toxins in the wine.
This will be 21 gallons of wine I’ve poured out.
Next batch is going to be pineapple. Hope my
Luck is better this time or I need to play a different sport.
Thanks again

 

[hounddawg]

Dawg thanks for your post and following this thread.
I canned the juice because I needed more time to pick and process more tunas to make the ten gallon batch I wanted to make. To harvest the juice I burned the stickers off, washed the fruit then crushed it. I boiled the crushed fruit with skin for twenty minutes or more to soften so I could strain it. As far as the skin tasting bad? The wine I made tasted and smelled great. Rich and sweet like a desert wine or port. I don’t think I would want it to taste differently. This second batch tastes the same way but I’m not going to try drinking it. I wish I knew what went wrong. Could be the skin of the tunas released a poison? I thought maybe the grinding crushed some seeds and released something bad? Why wine and not jelly or syrup? I’ve searched the internet over looking for the reason things went very wrong or if anyone else has encountered this problem.
You guys have probably come up with the answer. Either I’m allergic somehow to the wine and not to the jelly or syrup or Clostridium spoors were activated with the anaerobic of canning and deposited the toxins in the wine.
This will be 21 gallons of wine I’ve poured out.
Next batch is going to be pineapple. Hope my
Luck is better this time or I need to play a different sport.
Thanks again

no the seeds are eatable, if you had a half pint jar I'd be more then happy to try it, I've been online and in my survivalist books, and can find no reason for your outcome, how did you can them water bath, presser ? did you can them in canning jars and if so did the dome lids suck down, from my survivalist books prickly pear can be stored in about anyway, short term thrown in a dark cool corner, striped and dried, etc., etc., they are extremely forgiving hard times food sconce,
Dawg

PS please keep me informed on what you find out,
Richard

 

[hounddawg]

oh the skin tasting bad was from a eating for survival point of view only,, hehe getting old and soft when you worry about taste in a survival situation,, lol
Dawg

 

[Ken Paw Paw]

Sure Dawg send me your ground address and I’ll send you a half pint. I’m going into town tomorrow to send Rice Guy some. I advise caution if you decide to taste it. I used a pressure canner for the juice. I’ll send you both the wine and juice if you wish.