Please analyze my process/recipe for my 1st batch.

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jsavage

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Waiting for yeast to arrive (should be tomorrow) and then I'm going to start my 1st batch! I'm excited but also paranoid I'm going to screw it up somehow. I tend to over-complicate things. In trying to keep this as simple as possible, I'm going to start with a "welch's frozen grape juice" recipe. I've done some searching and most recipes I've found are for 1 gallon. All my equipment is for 5 or 6 gallon so I'm basically just going to take a mix of recipes and multiply everything by 5. I've also added in other steps I've found while educating myself. Hopefully I'm not making things worse for myself by doing this. Here's the recipe with the process following, please advise if you see anything wrong. I just want to make sure I've got everything concreted in my head before I start. Any help is GREATLY appreciated!

10 cans of frozen grape juice concentrate
5 lbs of sugar (or however much is needed to bring starting SG up to 1.090)
5 Campden tablets
3 tsp yeast nutrient
5 tsp pectic enzyme
2 tbsp cirtic acid
2.5 tsp potassium sorbate
oak cubes
EC-1118 Yeast

Step 1:
Empty Concentrate into primary and fill with water to 5-gallon mark.
Add sugar to bring to 1.090.
Add citric acid.
Dissolve and add 5 Campden tablets.
Cover with cloth and let sit for 24 hours.

Step 2:
Add Nutrient and pectic enzyme.
Pitch yeast.
(Add air lock now or wait until secondary and just cover again with cloth?)

Step 3:
After yeast slows (a week or so?).
Rack to secondary and add oak cubes.
Fit air lock.

Step 4:
When clear (rough timeline?), rack and refit airlock.

Step 5:
A month or so later (again, timeline?), rack, add potassium sorbate and bottle.

This is all culled from numerous pages on wine making. If I could just get some reassurance that what I've outlined above does not have any errors and is good for a basic beginner recipe, I'll sleep a lot better after I get things started... hopefully tomorrow! Thank you for your time!

-JS-
 

arcticsid

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OKAY JS you asked here it goes. I have made many batches with these concentrates.

Here is my take.

Step 1:The general rule is 3 cans and add enough water to make 1 gallon. So empty your concentrate into a bucket and add enough water to make 3 gallons.

You wil probably need more like 6-8# sugar, only the hydrometer can tell you for sure.

Dissolve this in hot water, save a little from the amount above.

Put all this into your primary bucket and allow to cool to about 70F(21C)

Add pectin E, 3/4 tsp per galon is what my pack says(powdered), so add about 2 tsp and mix well. Cover and allow to sit overnight. 24 hours is best.

Step 2: I don't use the tablets but I think it is 1 per gallon, so dissolve this(3 I guess), add the nutrient, according to the package for 3 gallons(forget 5 gallons, you are making 3 now, trust me), forget the citric acid, you don't need it. If you can, add yeast energizer, according to the package. If you don't have any, don't sweat it, but use it if you have it. It's like vitamin boost for the yeast. If you haven't opened the citric acid yet, trade it back in for something else. Mix it(campden, nutrient, energizer) very well, I mean mix it very well!!! You want to introduce some oxegen to the juice. Allow this to sit for 24 hours.

Step 3: Re-hydrate your yeast according to the instructions on the package. Stir this gently and pour on top of your must. (you could make a yeast starter, but that is a different discussion and you don't really need to.)

There is no need for an airlock at this point. Some will argue differently, but I am telling you what will work, guaranteed. Cover this with a clean cloth or even the bucket cover on loosely. You should see some bubble action going in 6 hours or so, depending on the temperature. Keep it at around 70F, 75F is better, but try to keep it at least 70.

In about 5-7 days your SG should come down to around 1.020 or so. I personally would transfer it at about 1.020-1.010. At this point put it under an airlock and let it go for about 3 weeks.

Of course when you "pull" it off the primary you don't want to suck up the gunk on the bottom.

As far as the oak goes, I have never used it and dont know when to add it, but I think it would be good for you to add it. I am sure one of the members more familiar with it can tell you more.

For now go ahaead and get it going. Make sure everything is cleaned and sterilized.

But that is the basic recipe and I guarantee you it will work.

That 1118 yeast is strong so you shouldn't have any problem getting it to go.

Keep us posted.

Troy
 

vvolf34

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I have not made anything like this, but the thing that stands out to me, is the 5 campden tablets in step one? Maybe your piecing together recipes called for that using some type of unprocessed juice or something. Usually and I know I will be corrected if wrong, you put k-meta (Potassium metabisulfite) in the begining to inhibit any wild yeast or mold.

But since you are using Welches frozen grape concentrate, I would save the tablets for your second racking. To help prevent your wine from oxidizing.
 

arcticsid

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That is a good basic recipe. If you want to start adding acid you really need to test it first. But this is your first batch so don't worry about it. You could also add Tannins, but again, don't worry about it right now. Just make it like I outlined above and it will work.

Why are you "waiting" for yeast? Where are you?

Good luck. Don't hesitate to post any other questions you have. We all are more than happy to help. There are some great experinced people in here.

Troy
 

arcticsid

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Volf, you still need the sulfites in the primary, but you usually add them after the Pectin E has a chance to do its business. Others have said you don't need it till after the first transfer to the secondary, but I am not willing to take the chance.
 

mmadmikes1

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Too much Potassium sulfate, Artic. In powdered form 1/2 teaspoon for 5 gallons. Now I have made 3 batches in last year an have not use PE or Potassium sulfate at beginning. I do use Sulfate and sorbate at end. Has always turned out good.
I do yeast starter early and as soon as must gets up to temp or down, I add a good health starter. Wild yeast doesn't stand a chance. In my opinion,( I know it an opinion) sulfate isn't needed at this point
 
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arcticsid

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Your opinion is welcome Mike, but I said " I have never used the tablets" I have always used 1/4 tsp for 5 gallons( of potassium metabisulfite), that should come out about 50ppm. If I understand right that is where you want to be.

Tablets, I already admitted I dont know the conversion. what would you use for 3 gallons?
 
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Julie

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.....Tablets, I already admitted I dont know the conversion. what would you use for 3 gallons?
Hi Troy,

It is 1 tablet per gallon. And I agree with you on 3 cans per gallon, anything less than that is going to give you a weak wine.

Julie
 

xanxer82

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As for the oak, if it's powder or chips add to primary.
Cubes or spirals add at secondary. If you have staves you add at second racking and can be left in during bulk aging.
 

djrockinsteve

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1 Camden tablet per 1 gallon. Crush thoroughly then disolve in an ounce of water or juice, then mix into your juice. Don't inhale this stuff as it will burn.
 

xanxer82

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Pick up a pill crusher from your pharmacy or Walmart. They are cheap and work great for crushing tablets.
 

jsavage

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Just make it like I outlined above and it will work.
Why 3 gallons instead of 5? All my equipment is from an equipment kit to make a 5 gallon batch. The primary is 7.5. Won't the extra headroom in the carboy cause problems with oxidation if I only do 3?

Why are you "waiting" for yeast? Where are you?
Middle of nowhere, i.e. Utah. Closest brew shop is 3 hours away in Vegas.
 

arcticsid

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The equipment is, not the juice! Heres a recipe Wade posted for wine from concentrate.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3515

If you want to make 5 gallons, bump it up to 15 cans and do the math to adjust the other ingredients.

Headspace isn't really a concern during the primary fermentation. There will be enough so2, which is heavier than air that will blanket the top of the must. After you rack it into the secondary, you absolutely want as little headspace as possible and have it under an airlock.

Some people use an airlock during the primary, but it really isn't necessary. Yeast likes oxegen to grow. I would cover your primary with a clean towel or jusst leave the lid ajar.

The recipe I posted will work guaranteed, I have done it many times with frozen concentrate. And don't be afraid to experiment with other flavors. As long as it is 100% juice, it will make wine. I have used several of the DOLE frozen cans and they have always turned out well. Neat flavors too, pineappl orange mango is a good one and in fact was my first wine ever and I have made it several times since.

Be sure to keep us posted, were all happy to help you achieve success.

Also I was to quick to tell you to trade the citric acid in. If you ever decide to make wine from apple juice you will want a little citric acid to prevent browning.

Troy
:b
 
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jsavage

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Sorry, I thought you meant I should do 3 gallons instead of 5. I don't mind buying more concentrate to make it a 5 gallon batch. I'm sure I'll go through it quick. ;)

One other question. I'm confused with the Campden tablets, as far as sanitation goes. How many should I use to make a gallon of sanitation fluid? The bottle is a 2 oz bottle divided into 100 tablets. It says 1 tablet per gallon = 150 ppm total SO2. I've done some searching and found inconsistent instructions on how to mix the sanitizer up. Also I have a LOT of citric acid left over from another endeavor that I can use to mix in with the tablets so I don't end up using so many. With the citric acid, what do you guys recommend for a good mix? Also, am I OK to cap the sanitation bottle to store it? It's not going to explode or anything? Do I need to keep it somewhere cool?

Thank you again everyone for all the help! I'll post updates and maybe pics when I get started. Thought it would be today but looks like tomorrow will be the big day. :)
 

jsavage

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Those are nice vids, thank you! However, he does not specify how much to add to the gallon - just "most" of the bottle that they are shipping with their kits. Also he's using powdered, I have campden tablets which have filler. Really I just need to know how many ppm I need in a gallon to make sanitizer. I can figure out how many tabs to use from that since one of my tabs = 150 ppm/USG.
 

xanxer82

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If you want to make sanitizer for your gear 7 tablets to 1 gallon water. If you are stabilizing wine it's 1 tab per gallon.
My advice is to get a 1 gal jug with a lid and use that to mix up sanitizer.
 

vvolf34

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Something is jumping out at me. You say your tablets give 150 ppm per gallon? My tablets give 30 ppm per gallon. I read where somone else had these high octane campden tablets and just about ruined his batch, by adding to much K-meta. Something you might want to look into more. I think the correct ratio would be 50 ppm per gallon or less when racking.:a1
 

jsavage

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Not sure, I know when researching to find how many tablets to use for the sterilizing solution I came across references to tables that contribute 50ppm/gal, 78ppm/gal, and 150ppm gal. I'm as confused as you are on why all the discrepancy, but I've already started the batch at this point. The fermentation started slow but is fairly active now. The slow start could have been due to the temps though. I've got a heating pad wrapped around the primary now and the must is hovering around 70F, which has really seemed to speed the fermentation up. Here's my current log, I'll update this thread as I make progress. Thank you again to everyone for helping me get this far!

WINE LOG (Frozen Grape Juice Concentrate):

01/22/09
Mixed must together, 12 cans of frozen grape juice concentrate.
Starting specific gravity of 1.090. Added pectic enzyme
Added Campden tablets about an hour later and covered at ~6:30 pm

01/23/09
Added 1 package of yeast EC-1118 ~6:30 pm and re-covered. Mixed yeast with warm water, 15 minute rest and then pitched.
No signs of activity at ~10:30 pm. Worried the yeast was too shocked from the temp difference between the yeast and the must. Added another package of same yeast just in case.
Must temperature around 64F.

01/24/09
Very small signs of fermentation at ~11:00 am. Wrapped primary with foot heating blanket set to low and stirred. Fermentation showing a little more activity at 4:00 pm and much more at 10:30 pm. Stirred again. Must temperature around 70F.
 

vvolf34

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SOunds like everything is going good. Are you making a 5 gal batch? If so I think it was recommended you use 3 cans per gallon else it might be a little thin. In your log you used 12 cans. If it were me, I would follows the others advise and get 3 more cans in there.

Tablets I am sorry can not help you as I have powder. But be carful when you add them to stabilize. Make sure you don't go over the limit. I am hoping someone will jump in with the correct ppm on stabilizing. For sanitizing I don't think having to much will hurt. Key words, I dont think!
 
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